Fast Patrol Ships

In the Alpha, what is your favorite PF? Who has the best PF and why? Who has the weakest and why?

For me:

Favorite is a real tough choice. I've always liked the Federation's Thunderbolt PF. We don't consider it conjectural for the same reasons we don't consider the Battleship or Stellar Domination conjectural. Both would have been natural developments to maintain the status with other empires. To have a class of vessel, description, SSD and such but then say it was really never built is silly. That's the opinion of our FTF group, YMMV.

Anyway, always have liked the Thunderbolt. Of course, for us the Type-G drones racks are ASW's.

But as for best...

I think that is a toss up and depends on a couple of factors. First, the fighting range. Second, do they have WBP's.

For close range you'd be hard pressed to find a PF that can match the firepower of the Hydran Harrier PF. 2xFusions (that could be OL'd), 3xPh-2's and one Ph-G. At R0, discounting OL's and going with max damage as a base line, one Harrier is capable of inflicting up to 60 points of damage in a single turn. At R0 the Borak PF isn't too far behind with a potential of 44 points of damage and the ability to do it ALL again next turn whereas the Harrier would have to let the fusions cool for a turn. So over 2 turns they would pretty much equal out against each other.

From a longer range though both would suffer substantially. So from longer ranges I think I'd have to go with either the Lyran or Seltorian....yes, the Seltorian. First, the Lyran has twin disruptors and WBP's would allow them speed and the ability to use both with possible overloads. The Bobcat has 1 point of energy over what most others have to start with. If damage takes out one disruptor (but doesn't kill the ship) they still have one HW to fight with. Top that off with 2xPh-2's and 2xph-3's and the Bobcat is pretty decent. However, I might have to give the edge to the Seltorian. It has 1xPC, 3xph-1's and 2xph-3's. The PC, even though it isn't a crunch weapon (in damage or in to-hit %) can still be fired twice in a turn with one of them being an OL. This doesn't even take into consideration the 'combined shot house rule'. The ability to fire twice, especially at the attrition level can be very handy. To top this, 3xph-1's and 2xph-3's is excellent for a PF. Even if one of the PC's miss it's still backed up by the ph-1's, which at the attrition level scale is highly substantial.

Weakest...I'm not impressed with the Klingon gunboat. While the 2 drones and 1 ADD are nice, it only has a pair of PH-2's and one disruptor. Not saying it sucks, but it just doesn't look equal to MANY other PF's in the Alpha. One-on-one against anyone else's PF's I think it would be at a disadvantage. Not a for sure loser, just disadvantaged.

What say you? How do you stack of the PF's?


The Gorn PF probably has the most destructive power. Four Plasma F tubes and 3 Ph1s. Launch 2 F-torps per turn, or bolt one and launch one. So, you've got a flotilla five PFs, assuming the scout stays in back to lend Electronic Warfare (EW) support. The five zoom in to range 5, shoot 15 ph1s and bolt 5 F-torps. During launch phase you have already launched 5 F-torps to deter pursuit.

So, assuming neutral EW, in direct fire, 15 ph1s at range 5 is a reliable 52 points. You probably hit with 3 or 4 bolts, so that's another 30-40 points. So, probably 82-92 points in one shot, with 100 points of plasma in the sky to deter pursuit.

OR, keep your 52 points of damage, but launch 200 points of plasma instead. How many ships can you force to weasel?

AND, you circle around and do the exact same thing next turn, no need to reload torps yet. Just need 3 power to reload the 3 Ph1s.

The Gorn PF flotilla is the most powerful.

Plasma PFs vs DF PFs

I admit that the Plasma PFs are pretty strong, but DC overstates it a little: Plasma PFs are only allowed to launch 2 plasma per turn. However, 40 pts of plasma, plus phasers, is nothing to sneeze at. And then there are the other 3 PFs doing the same.

As for the Hydran Harrier, I agree that the Hydran PF is certainly on the top-3 list. But I don't think it's the Harrier - It's the Howler. At range 1, your 3 gatlings will do 45 damage and your 3 PH-2s will do another 13 damage. With the cheap charging cost and fast charging time of the phasers, you're back at it before the fusions recharge.

Unfortunately, the worse PF is probably the one who was there first. The best thing said for the Lyran Bobcat, is that you always end up facing twice as many of them as you do of any one else's PFs. It's got the same pair of Disruptors that the Klingons do, but only a couple of phasers to back it up and no backup weapons.

Matt wrote:

>>It's got the same pair of Disruptors that the Klingons do, but only a couple of phasers to back it up and no backup weapons.<<

Just to point out, the standard Klingon PF only has 1 disruptor.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Yeah, but...

2x Disr, 2x Ph-2 (FA+L/R), 2x Ph-3 (LS/RS)

Klingon G-1:
1x Disr, 2x Drn-A, 2x Ph-2 (FX), ADD

So basically the Klingons traded a pair of Ph-3s for an ADD, added a third weapon system, and made the phaser arcs wider.

If you want better weapon-type equality, the G-1B trades a drone-rack for a Disr. That boat has the same pair of disrs, phasers with larger arcs, and the Drone-A and ADD instead of the Lyran's Ph-3s.

Personally, I don't feel that disruptor-armed PFs should be getting any closer than overload range, and drone-armed PFs would do better to stay outside overload range. It's the balance of weapon-efficiency vs likelihood of getting killed, and both weapon systems are moderate to long-ranged systems. At that, the G-1 is a much better PF. The Lyans having a few defensive phasers is not a compelling reason to close with them - even if they can mass them.


I think of the two I'd still go with the Bobcat. Two disruptors are better than one. Both have ph-2's so that equals out. The Bobcat's two ph-3' take care of the Klinks drones (not to mention the speed of the Bobcat) and the Klinks ADD doesn't affect the Bobcat. Personally, if I had to take the Klink I'd rather have the G1B with the extra disruptor.

And I'd take the Seltorian over either the Lyran or Klink. Much better phasers and the PC fires twice. Again, particularly if we're going with the PC modifications talked about in the past i.e. 8-impulse delay between shots instead of 12, no-hold capacitor and combined shot (one OL and one standard combined for a full capacitor of 5 points). Just the phaser suite makes it better overall than either the Lyran or Klink.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Negatory, good buddy.

I, humbly, disagree. I consider the G-1 superior to the Bobcat.

The G-1s phasers have a better arc. This allows them to engage the Bobcat through more shields and to better execute pot-shots on weak shields.
The reduction in disruptors means they have more discretionary power for maneuver or EW.
The two drone racks means that they have something to tie up the bobcat's phasers. Remember that the drones are going to be fasties, so they will certainly be something the Bobcat will be shooting at regardless of the Lyran's speed. Additionally, the Bobcat's PH-3s (assuming they both get firing opportunities) will kill a drone 2 out of every 3 firings; this means that some of the Bobcat's PH-2s will be forced into this duty.

The result is that the Bobcat is going to shoot a pair of disruptors and a Ph-2 at the G-1, while the G-1 is going to shoot a pair of Ph-2s and a disruptor. Ordinarily, this tally of damage will fall to the Bobcat's favor; particularly if the G-1 does indeed keep their distance. The difference is that the G-1 is going to have the initiative in these exchanges, picking the shields and the ranges. Or else simply preventing damage through EW and reinforcement.

G1 vs. Bobcat

You have some valid points. It would be a very interesting battle!

How do you feel about the Selt or the Borak?

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Seltie PF

Of those two PFs, I have a slight preference for the Seltorian. The three Ph-1s seem to me to offer a better medium-range punch then the plethera of Ph-2s and PH-3s offered the Borak. Certainly, the Borak would be a better PF at range 1 or 2, but PFs rarely get to that range (A fleet's screening force whole existance is to keep seekers and attrition units off of the valuable targets.)

Compared to it's opponents, I think the Seltie PF is comparable to the Tholian Arachnid (the standard Arachnid, not Arachnid-W, has one less PH-1 but has the extra Disr.) They have comparable speeds, when comparing their power curves against their heavy weapons. The Seltie does a little more damage, because of it's extra Ph-1.

The Borak is certainly inferior to the Harrier, who is likely to be their main opponent. The Harrier has more PH-2s pointed at the Borak unless the Borak gets the Hydran on the oblique. The PH-C is inferior to the Gatling at the ranges where the PH-2s are likely to be used. And the Fusions are an added bonus to the Hydran's side, which the Borak has no reply. Consider the average damages at any range, and the Harrier comes out ahead. But granted that the Harrier is one of the best PFs in the game (and, at that, weaker than the Hellion.)