Heavy/Command Cruiser preference

Either tournament or regular SFB, what heavy (or command) cruiser to you prefer to play?

And why? What do you like best about that particular ship? What do you consider the strengths (and weaknesses) of the ship?

Hydran Ranger

Since you narrowed it down to Cruisers, I would have to say that the Hydran Ranger is my favorite cruiser to play (in general SFB). My primary enjoyment is centered around that it is a carrier that does not need escorts (indeed, it is a better "carrier" than most other empires' actual CVs.) I'm a fighter guy, and like that the fighters can do the heavy lifting without putting the ship at risk.

The Fusions are it's primary weakness, as the lack of range means the enemy knows you are always looking to knife-fight. To put that tactic into effect, the unrefit Ranger has an additional weakness - a top speed of 28.

But the Hydran fusion ships are also really easy to fly. Simply do housekeeping, put a little bit into tractor maybe, and then turn yourself into a high-speed seeking weapon. The other guy will be able to unload at you maybe once before you catch him; even if he makes you work several turns to catch him. Once you get close, unload the fighters and give him the uncomfortable choice of which way he wants to die - to the fighters or to the ship.

When it comes to Tournaments, I have played the Hydran and gotten decent at it, but I have taken a shine to the WYN AuxBC. With it's huge power reserves and large drone loads, I enjoy being able to go faster than just about everyone else while nibbling at them with seekers and the occasinal heavy weapon. The thing really does turn like a barge, but the high speed offsets that (everyone turns poorly at those speeds, and I can get more turns in during a turn this way.)

It has been my experience that this ship does not win quickly. It has the worst phaser-alpha-strike of the tournament ships and because most packages add a drone or maybe a couple of plasma, it has the worst heavy-weapon-alpha-strike of the tournament also. So this ship tends to win outside of the first five turns. The only way I've seen a quick win (less than five turns) is if the other guy gets careless and allows the WYN to anchor him (and then feed him a metric ton of drone counters.)

My favorite package is the HHBB, where you have 6(!!) drone racks to throw at people who want to knife fight you, and you can hit them on any weak shields regardless of how well they are maneuvering their shields away from you. But I've talked about this package before.. [smirk]

Even though I posed this

Even though I posed this question, it isn't and easy one for me to answer.

I've always liked the Lyran Tiger Heavy Cruiser. Fast firing disruptors give this vessel a lot of flexibility. Having a UIM is icing on the cake. A balanced phaser suite that have 180 arcs. Decent power at 37 though a bit more would be nice when having to charge the ESG's though I do enjoy the challenge of trying to make the most of what I've got (we use the warp gear shift so that also helps quite a bit). Shuttles and labs are a bit scarce but the number of control boxes is outstanding. And I like the ESG's and the tactics behind them. Normally I'm flying it against my Kzinti son so I use them defensively. But I like the option of using it/threatening to use it as a ram. And it has a better turn mode than many other CA's.

Our FTF group uses ESG's that do affect plasma. ADB was in error on that point when decoding the A.F. tapes. Fortunately I was in the A.F. with a higher than T.S. clearance and did have direct first-hand access to the tapes.

By my screen name you'll deduce I also very much like the Klingon D7 Battlecruiser. Though I don't play it as often as I do the Lyran these days. Once again, fast firing disruptors always make it a threat and the UIM 'almost' makes it full proof though I have been know to miss 3 out of 4 at close range in the tournaments lol.

Best phaser suite of the game and I've found that even some veteran players aren't fully aware of all the arcs the D7 is capable of using...until it's too late. I also like having the seeking weapon option/threat. Again, not enough shuttles on the regular SFB version but then that is the challenge that makes it fun. Outstanding power ratio and fantastic turn mode makes this a particularly dangerous ship.

I've enjoyed the Seltorian Heavy Cruiser. With 12 phasers it can be a brute on the overrun. Couple this with the tweaks I've made to the PC (combined shots, 8-impulse delay and removed the hold cost) makes it a viable ship with a lot of flexibility (again I've properly decoded the A.F. tapes). It can deliver a respectable alpha strike or it can be a great Mizia ship. Power is good though it needs it to be able to fight. Lack of seekers is a challenge though but then the phasers help that deficit. If you're using BP then this ship excels! It turns like a pig (just like other CA's) but the phasers are decently placed. The shield cracker is a nice touch as well and gives just a tad bit extra to the alpha strike.

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Lyran TCC

On paper, the Lyran Tourney Cruiser looks like a rock-solid ship. It's on the high end of the power scale, it has a high end phaser suite, and has disruptors. But the consensus is that it fares poorly in the tournament. I put the blame on the ESGs.

I don't think many people know how to use the ESGs properly (I used to, 20-some years ago. Not anymore.) The ESG is all the Lyrans have as a secondary weapon (in place of drones or cloak), so many players feel they must factor it into every battle pass. Add in the fact that the ESGs (like the Hydran Hellbores) have some sort of concentric-ring system attached to them that make them a casualty in the first batch of internals. I'm thinking that the ship might do better in the tourneys if they relegate the ESG to a defensive weapon; something they use instead of a WW against huge drone swarms, or if they really are going to get into close knife fights. n other words, if they fly the ship like the ESG is simply a fluff system.

Against a non-Kzinit opponent

Against a non-Kzinit opponent I have occasionally used the ESG ram successfully. It's a timing thing to be sure. What are your tactics for the Lyran?

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Despite that this post hasn't

Despite that this post hasn't been commented in since January, I am going to throw in my favorite CA/CC. Lately I have enjoyed repeated success with the Kzinti, specifically the CC. I love that ship. I also like the Hydran Lord Commader CC, but haven't flown it yet. The Fusion beams appeal to me more than Hellbores. I have the nack of getting super close, even when I play a "long ranged " race like the Fed's or Kzintis,

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

Thread resurrection

Feel free to resurrect any/all threads that you like. The more the better.

I've been playing the Paravian CC lately and it can be a handful with 5xQWT. It isn't worth the power to try and phaser them down and wading through wave after wave of standard QWT's is going to wear you down in short order.

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Playing a game right now

Playing a game right now (11:52 am) with my dad. Playing the Historical scenario Blood Feud. I'm the Kzinti, he's the Lyrans. My CC Is almost crippled. Lost a FF on the first turn, we are four turns in and I finally killed his DD with a Kzinti Anchor. 10 type one drones. 120 points. Dead destroyer. I'm gonna lose though, b/c go VS only has sheild damage.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

His CA, not Vs

His CA, not Vs

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

What scenario number is that?

What scenario number is that? What publication or Captain's log is it in? And what are the forces on each side? Sounds like a cool scenario.

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Module C1, Captains edition

Module C1, Captains edition SH41.0, Y166. Forces for the Kzinti are a CC and two FF. The Lyrans have a CA, a DD and a FF. Although both Empires were installing new refits during this time, the ships in the scenario have received none, as per the rules. I did end up losing, but not before I demolished my dad's DD, and wreaked his FF. There was also an Asteroid field present. It was a fun scenario. Next battle is going to be SH42.0 Selected Attack. Hydran RN, LN, and HN and of course fighters (S1) against a Klingon base station and reinforcements of a D6, F5, and an E4 that arrive on turn 3. Y152. Also in C1.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

Thank you

Very cool, thank you. I'm glad you guys had fun. This might be a good scenario for me and my son. He's our normal Kzinti player and I've gone against him a few times with the Lyrans. I'll take a look at that scenario. Thanks again.

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You're welcome. I love

You're welcome. I love playing the Kzinti. I don't know what it is about them that keeps drawing me to them.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

The Kzin are a great race to

The Kzin are a great race to play. Some races, imo, are one trick ponies i.e. get close and blast the enemy. The Kzin use finesse, movement and tactics really come into play. When playing the Kzin I always remember that disrupters have three modes; standard, overload and off. And the Kzin can be fast with them off to get into an advantageous position. And of course coming in behind a wave of drones doesn't suck either lol.

We're starting a Frigate tourney and my son has the Kzin on the first game. I'm the Gorn and I think he's got the advantage.

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You're right. A lot of races

You're right. A lot of races only have a few tricks. Only the races with multiple heavy weapons seem to be more fun (to me) to play. The Hydrans, ISC, and Kzinti are my favorites. Lots of choices with those guys. The Hydrans and Kzinti involve swarm tactics, which seems to be my thing.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

I don't know if you have

I don't know if you have Module C6 or not, but it's worth having. I think you'd get a lot of play out of the Carnivon. The disruptor cannon is actually an excellent weapon. It's a two turn arming weapon but has more punch that a disruptor (bolt). Plus they have the death bolts which you need to fully understand to use to the max. They can actually fire twice per turn about every other turn. And they can be customized. And the heel nipper can really ruin someones day.

I'll put something in the Tactics Section about the death bolt so you understand what I'm talking about :)

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Thank you! Right now, I am

Thank you! Right now, I am looking at R2, but I do think the Carnivons would be Really cool to have. I'll look into C6. Thanks again!

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

I thought C6 was an excellent

I thought C6 was an excellent module. The Carnivon and Paravian fleets are very complete from battleships to fast patrol ships. Very good weapon systems for both. Good addition to the game imo. We use them both in our FTF games and they are a standard part of the Alpha Octant (which we've modified a bit to include a total of 24 races).

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I have often imaged what a

I have often imaged what a General War would be like with the Carnies and Paravians. I will definately look into C6. Also, would I need module Y1 since that is the module that the Dogs and Birds are introduced?

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

And thank you for posting

And thank you for posting that Death Bolt stuff. I really appreciate all I this.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

Your very welcome. No, you

Your very welcome. No, you don't need Y1 at all. C6 covers everything you'd need for both races. It has an 'alternate' historical section that gives various options if you want to incorporate them into the Alpha Octant.

Expanding on our FTF group. We've 'redrawn' the map so-to-speak in the Alpha Octant. All the canon races are were they are normally but we've used the 'Far Stars' area and the area behind the ISC to fill in races that we wanted to include in the Alpha. The Carns are directly north of the Lyran and to the left of the Kzinti and all share the WYN as a corner. The Paravian are to the right of the Gorn and north of the ISC. That's pretty much traditionally where there 'were' or would have been.

We've added the Vudar (traditional location south of the Klinks), several of the Omega races we enjoy such as the Maesron (next to the Carns since they are also a wolf-like race [Vulpa are the warrior class]), Kolighr, Vari and Hivers. We've made the Seltorian an Alpha race but they are in a non-traditional location. We've made the Frax an actual empire. And then we've added all of the new races such as Nicozian, Borak and Peledine. And one Companion Games race, the Argonians. So we have a total of 24 races rather than the 'traditional' 10 which adds a LOT of flavor and tactics to the Alpha Octant.

If you don't have the Nicozian, Borak or Peladine they are available for cheap on Warehouse 23. They're cheap because they are in playtest right now. But they're fleshed out enough for the Borak and Peladine to use as a whole. I've particularly enjoyed the Borak and my son enjoys the Nicozians.

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That is a lot of races. And

That is a lot of races. And one heck of a General War. Definately different alliances being made than the traditional ones made by the Feds and the Klinks. Sounds really cool.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

It's really worked out

It's really worked out nicely. For example, there were several Omega races that we really liked. But using them as 'Omega' races just wasn't going to happen. Sure, I've got the OMRB and such but Omega will likely never be expanded on since a computer crash caused the loss of any further Omega products. So Omega kinda hit a dead end. So we took the empires we liked and simply converted them to Alpha standards (there is a thread here on Omega to Alpha conversions).

We liked the new playtest races as well. But too be honest, when something is in playtest with ADB that often means a decade or longer limbo where not much happens. So at some point the Borak 'may' become an official race...but don't hold your breath. They're still looking into X2 for the last 35 years lol. But I enjoyed them enough to find them a home in the Alpha Octant.

So this brings all sorts of new dynamics and tactics that are made possible. A General War doesn't necessarily have to be the
Grand Alliance vs. the Coalition. You could have several factions involved. Some of which aren't at war with each other but aren't allies either. Some could be temporary friends of my friends but still my enemy sort of stuff. But generally it allows us to just have fun with a plethora of choices. Feel like a phaser boat? Fly the Borak. Feel like trying something totally different? Try the Nicozians or better yet, fight them and try to get past their Collapsium armor!

You'll see in the Modification section we have a House Rules thread as well with all of the modifications we've made to our FTF games. Feel free to explore any of them. They've really bumped the game up several notches. Want a fun game...try using the Warp Gear Shift that was introduced back in one of the Stellar Shadow issues.

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Sounds really exciting! I am

Sounds really exciting! I am definately go in to get C6 now, along with R2. After all, I have only ever twice bought a module by itself. The rest have been in trios or pairs.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

Have you ever played the

Have you ever played the Andros before?

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I've off-and-on played the Andros in campaign settings. I think they would be a good addition to an expanded galaxy situation, like what you've described, Dave.
Their only issue, is that the nerfing they've received has made them unable to be competitive when the fleet BPV gets too far above 500 or so. I know that some people have decided to play them with their original rules (primarily; remove the panel leak rules and perhaps remove the panel degredation rules) to counter-balance this issue.
Otherwise I consider them no worse and no better than, say, the Vudar in such a setting. They don't show up until after the middle years, but then their technology doesn't break things too much. With module C3A, I imagine they even get toys that allow them to keep up with the X-ships and all.

Module C3A

Commander's Anros weren't scary...they were terrifying and responsible for many brown pants on opposing Captain's. The Andros were modified for Captain's rules and some say nerfed and some say they're fine. I was of the opinion that they were nerfed too much. However, a conversation with Peter a while back changed some of my opinion;

Peter wrote:

"So here is the problem--that isn't how Andros actually clear their panels.

They clear their panels by dropping them and sending *all* the power in their panels into their batteries in one fell swoop.

I'm an Intruder. I can absorb, what, 80 points on the fronts (I don't remember off hand how many PAs are up there, but I think it is 8 boxes). I also have, IIRC, 8 batteries that hold 40 power. I get shot, say, for 90 damage (Intruder is at, say, R5 from a cruiser while the Cobras are all up in their faces, and another cruiser was displaced way over yonder…). I take 10 internals (likely not real relevant). I get 18 points of degradation. I have 62 power in my panels. I displace 12 hexes away and turn and run for a bit. At the end of the turn, I absorb 6 power and radiate 8, leaving 48 power in my panels and a bunch in my batteries, which I have cleverly used up most of during the turn with speed changes, refilling phasers, running PAs, and EW. The next turn, I again empty my batteries as much as possible. I get out of effective range of my opponents. I drop my panels to standard, moving 18 power to the rear panels. I then drop my front panels, moving 30 power to my batteries that I have made room for. 8 impulses later, I turn my panels back on, turn back around, and come back for more. I have full batteries, most of my front panels regenerated (everything but the degradation, which I'll get some of back with some CDR at the end of the turn anyway), and you probably have a demolished cruiser in my wake.

This is why the Andros are so powerful. And needs to be understood well to fully appreciate the Andros and what they can do.

When the Andro rules were originally developed (Designer's Supplement 1 or 2 in the late 70's?), they didn't have the ability to drop panels during the turn. So they needed to be able to absorb and radiate a lot of energy to be able to survive. As if they wanted to drop their panels to clear them, they needed to do so for the whole turn during EA, which made doing this sort of thing very difficult and mostly a non issue. In Commander's, they gained the ability to change panel levels during EA, which allowed them to start clearing panels quickly and easily (engage early in a turn, take all your opponent's fire, displace away, monkey with and empty panels before the end of the turn while your opponent has very few, if any, weapons left to fire, and get the panels back up by the end of the turn. And have full batteries again to keep up the mad fight). At which point, it became apparent that they were *way* too strong. Which is why they got changed in Captain's.

The Designer's Andro Rules did not include (or even envision) dropping panels during the turn for 8 impulses. That was stuck on later, likely by accident. And then got codified into the Commander's rules. And then when people figured them out (this was pre-everyone having the internet, so it took a long time for everyone to figure it out), and they turned out to be nuts. So they got fixed. And now they are fine. I suspect that many of the people involved in the discussion about how the Andros aren't scary enough haven't actually really thought about how good they actually are or used them enough with full actual knowledge of how they really work to really understand them."

David wrote:

"Okay Peter, I'm really starting to see where you're coming from here, great examples given. Bear with me a moment on this part of your example as it brings up a question:

You wrote:

" I get 18 points of degradation. I have 62 power in my panels. I displace 12 hexes away and turn and run for a bit. At the end of the turn, I absorb 6 power and radiate 8, leaving 48 power in my panels and a bunch in my batteries, which I have cleverly used up most of during the turn with speed changes, refilling phasers, running PAs, and EW. The next turn, I again empty my batteries as much as possible. I get out of effective range of my opponents. I drop my panels to standard, moving 18 power to the rear panels. I then drop my front panels, moving 30 power to my batteries that I have made room for. 8 impulses later, I turn my panels back on, turn back around, and come back for more. I have full batteries, most of my front panels regenerated (everything but the degradation, which I'll get some of back with some CDR at the end of the turn anyway), and you probably have demolished cruiser in my wake."

Okay, great example and it clarifies some things for me. Question; you drop the front panels to standard and move 18 to the back panels. Okay, I got that. That is option #3 in D10.424. Then you drop the front all together (I'm guessing an impulse later?). That 30 points, assuming the back panel of 6 boxes (that just received the 18 points) has room left, wouldn't all or most of that 30 points just dumped go there before it hits the batteries?"

Peter wrote:

"Ah, yes. I forgot that step :-) The Andros are very complicated.

So you got the Front panels at standard with 30 power and the rears at standard with 18. The next impulse, you drop the rear panels. Absorb the 18 to the batteries (as the fronts are full). Next impulse, spend more battery power (rearm phasers! Change EW! Start rearming TR beams or whatever!). Turn off the fronts. All panels are now off. Batteries are probably full. You are likely out of effective range from your opponent, and your opponent probably doesn't have many weapons left to fire in the first place, but you still might take a few stray internals from off side phasers, but trading 3 or 4 extra long range internals for completely empty panels is always worth it. Then 8 impulses later, you put everything back up.

It does take shenanigans. And careful battery management and energy use. But it is kind of amazing how much power an Andro can cycle into and out of batteries in a given turn (rearm phasers during EA, fire them at something anywhere on the map, use batteries to rearm them; unplotted speed changes done inefficiently just to use up power; EW changes; etc). And is why they can be very effective.

This is the reason that the Andro TC won the national championship (back when it was big and had 100 people playing), like 4 out of 5 years in a row, getting downgraded between each win. As it was difficult to understand, the people who understood it were really good at it, and it was virtually impossible to beat when you didn't really understand what it was doing, and still hard to beat when you did."

So yes, they were changed but not necessarily nerfed (although the creation of the TRL was a downgrade for some Sat ships). But it seems if you REALLY read the rules and REALLY keep close track of them they still tend to be rather scary ships.

Module C3A puts them squarely back in the terrifying category. C3A puts the Andros on steroids and that's not even counting the X version of the ships. Anyone want to take on a Heavy Intruder or get hit with a Dissection Beam?

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I have C2, but have yet

I have C2, but have yet tobplay the Andros. I really want to though. Sad, as it has been over a year since I got C2. When I first saw them, I instantly thought "these are the Borg of SFB". I still stand by that, only except the Andros don't assimilate, they just blow stuff up.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

Panel Dump

I agree that the Andro Panel dump is something that makes them scary - in smalle-scale encounters. The Andros are still respectable there and that is where they shine. You start putting them up against anything heavier than a cruiser squadron or a couple of DD squadrons, and the concentrated fire from the galactics start popping Andros faster than they can cripple the galactics.
So from a campaign perspective, The Andros are great stuff and not horribly overbalanced. The will start to win in the early game, when nobody has the ship concentration to do much about them. Then they start to lose in the late game, when everyone is running around with large fleets and the campaign map doesn't allow them the possibility to hit soft targets. The balance part is trying to manage that tipping point so the Andro doesn't auto-win the campaign and doesn't auto-lose the campaign.
There are other empires in similar situations:
* The Orions have less of a problem with large encounters than the Andros do, but they still have that issue.
* The LDR as "We have more gatlings than the Hydrans" will auto-win the campaign if they are released from the restriction of their small Order of Battle, for the same reason that the Neo-Tholians would auto-win if they were released from the web-caster fleet restriction.
* The WYN are in a similar tipping-point situation as the Andromedans, but less so. They can't compete until they get the fish ships, then they simply become competitive (as opposed to auto-winning)
* The Vudar doesn't have anything but a vanilla CL, vanilla FF, and an FLG until Y175. So they could technically take part in a campaign that starts at the four-powers war (a common starting place for 4X-style campaigns), but would be bored with their fleet choices for the first decade.
* The Seltorians would have a better time of it if they start with the ships they arrived with in Y182 and the ships marked as Home Galaxy variants, as long as they don't mind playing with vanilla warships. It is possible that they would overpower equivilent ships from the four-powers war era, because the Seltorians are considered competitive with ships built 20 years later, but there is no data to go either way on that.

Matt wrote: * The LDR as "We

Matt wrote:

* The LDR as "We have more gatlings than the Hydrans" will auto-win the campaign if they are released from the restriction of their small Order of Battle, for the same reason that the Neo-Tholians would auto-win if they were released from the web-caster fleet restriction.

Even though we have the LDR as an official empire in our FTF games, I can't think of every using them. I don't agree with the gatlings for them (or the Feds for that matter). Never made sense that the Hydrans would have given them the gat tech. And it's another example of the tech-sloshing that went on and on and on. They simply should have developed something else to fit the bill than just giving Lyrans gat tech. That's my view.

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I think the LDR is cool, and

I think the LDR is cool, and have no real qualms about the Feds getting gats, but I agree, the LDR should get somthing else. But there are no other weapons out there to substitute the power of a gat. Not that I know of anyways.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.


I agree. You get too many gatlings, and you got OP. Sure, you turn out pretty weak outside of range 3 - sorta.
Case in point: A couple of us from my gaming group decided to play a "Death Star" scenario - A small moon in orbit around a Gas Giant with couple of fighter bases, a couple of bomber bases, 6 heavy weapon bases, 6 heavy phaser bases, and a smattering of power and warning stations - against an appropriately-sized fleet. This is a somewhat traditional quantity-vs-quality approach. I chose Hydran as the defender, and he chose Lyran as the attacker. 20-some gatlings at range 15 *will* knock down a shield.
What really galls me about the LDR, is that they field more gatlings per ship than the Hydrans do. If the Hydrans are able to mass-produce the beggars, why don't they *at least* reach parity with the LDR? Sure, you can say that the Hydran navy is 3 times the size of the LDR. What is going on there, if the LDR can convince the Hydrans to funnel half of their gatling production to the LDR?
(Assumption: LDR navy is 1/3 of Hydran navy. Fact: LDR field twice the gatlings per hull type than the Hydrans do for the equivilent hull type (e.g. LDR CA has 4 gats, Hydran RN has 2.) Ergo: 2/3 [amt LDR field] +1 [amt Hydran field] == 40% of ship-sized-gatling production goes to LDR.)

Exactly! Going back to Feds,

Exactly! Going back to Feds, I'll give a reason of why I think it's okay for them to have gats. That reason is that they only arm their CV groups with them. If they armed their standard warships with them then they would to powerful. In a basic scenario, the LDR is likely to have the advantage over the Hydrans in Terms of ship to ship weapons, like you explained above.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

Don't forget the Fed F14/15

Don't forget the Fed F14/15 with the gats. Now ADB tried to walk that back a bit in one of the history articles in CL saying that not 'every' F14 or F15 had the gat. But I've not seen a scenario that specifically stated the fighters didn't have gats.

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Of course!! Can't forget the

Of course!! Can't forget the best (IMO) Fed fighters out there. Also the F-111 in module K has a gat.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

And the F-16 In J/R2.

And the F-16 In J/R2.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

Ship-mounted Gats and Fighter-mounted Gats

There is a difference between the two models of gatling phasers. Predominate among them is that the Fighter-mounted Gatlings have a maximum range of 10 and are presumably smaller. There are likely to be other differences that are not appreciated in the game (such as power requirements, maintenance requirements, cost, ease of use, ease of firing, reliability, etc...)
However, the Federation purchase of Fighter-Gatlings never approached a significant amount of the Hydran production of same. (U7.243) points out how the Federation never had more than 30% of their fighters with Gatlings. If we make the assumption that the Hydran's fielded twice the number of fighters as the Federation did (taking into account that nearly every Hydran ship has fighters, balanced by the fact that the Fed fleet is between twice and four-times the size of the Hydran fleet), then the Feds purchased as much as 15% of the Hydran's production of fighter-mounted gatlings. That is a number I can live with.

You speak (type?) truth. Yes,

You speak (type?) truth. Yes, the number of ship gats is much lower than fighter gats, as in the game it is stated that, while fighter mounted phasers will have the same damage output as ship phasers, the actual weapon is much smaller, therefore allowing faster production for fighters than for ships.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

My Dad and I played SH42, in

My Dad and I played SH42, in C1. Takes place in Y152. Hydran task force of an RN (9 S1), LN (4S1) and an HN against a Klingon BS with a G2 and a D6, F5, and E4 as reinforcements that arrive in turn #3. Historically the Hydrans won, and I (playing the Hydrans) made sure that happened. A quick game, which resulted in the destruction of the BS and G2 and the Hydrans losing a few fighters and running away from the Klingon reinforcements. It was a great game. I highly recommend it for Hydran lovers.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

Sounds like a great scenario!

Sounds like a great scenario! How many turns did you play and how long did it take?

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It took is about 90 mintutes

It took us about 90 mintutes or so. It lasted 4 or 5 turns. I think 4 and at impulse 20 or so was when I disengaged.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.

That's pretty good for 4

That's pretty good for 4 turns :)

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

I thought so too.

I thought so too.

He who would defend eveything, defends nothing.


Has any played the Fed Heavy Command Cruiser much? If so, does anyone have an opinion as to whether they are OPed or not. My opponent Dennis loves to fly it, and I find it almost unbeatable.

I can't say

Sorry. What module did the Fed HCC come in?

Looking back at the thread, I have some things to add.

Lately, I've been playing the Paravians in a campaign. I'll have to say that I have an appreciation for the QWT. Everyone has been telling me that it's on the broken-side of things, with it's every-turn fire rate and it's low energy demands (same as a disruptor.) The fire rate and it's long range (30 moves to exhaustion) is something I have been able to leverage into a tactic not unlike the Plasma Ballet. It's a very durable torpedo, but individually has a small warhead and doesn't have much direct-punch when it does hit.

So I'll put in my two pesos, and say that the Paravian CA is a nice ship (I have a preference for the war cruiser, though, for it has a better power curve for the same number of torps - though is less durable a ship.)

Again, I can't stress enough that the problem with Andros is that they lose when the opponent begins to have large quantities of heavy weapons. Anything more numerous than a war-cruiser squadron, and the Andros outright lose a ship with each battle-pass: a D5 squadron, with it's 12 overloaded Disruptors (no UIM) and 6 Ph-1s, will average 61 dmg at range 8 - enough to outright cripple a Cobra or do internals to an Intruder. Add a fourth D5 and you add 22 more damage, which will pop that Cobra on an average DAC or clean out the fluff of the intruder.
Going from one of the more forgiving weapons to one of the least forgiving weapons, a Hydran Mongol squadron can dish out 9 overloaded Hellbores and 6 Ph-1s, for 87 damage at range 8 (37 of which goes to the non-facing PA bank.) That will cripple the Cobra if they take even one 'Drone' hit, and certainly cripple them on the following impulse from the various defensive phasers fired at long range. A fourth Mongol would mean another 42 damage (19 of which to the non-facing PAs), which would do internals to an Intruder and knock it out of the battle for several turns (as it now has to get rid of a whopping 93 power in the panels and has 23 degredation.)
These numbers assume a range-8 encounter, where the Galactic is trying to snipe at the Andro before the Andro can achieve the needed knife-fight range. At range 4 (where the Galactic might fire in hopes of killing off the TRs that would fire on the next move), you can expect all of the above numbers to go up by 50% (largely due to the phasers), which will probably cripple that Intruder in all but the worst circumstances.


Sorry, it's the FED CB and is in R2.76

It has 4 photons, 10 phaser 1s, 2 phaser 3s, and 2 G drone racks.

I found it very hard to beat with equal BPV ships.


The FED CB is indeed an excellent ship. It actually has more firepower than the first FED DN which had 4 photons and 10 ph-1's (no ph-3's and no drone racks). In fact, the first FED DN may have come out before the Fed's started using drones (wayyyyy back in the day). So yes, it is a powerful ship and a big step up from the CC which isn't much more than the CAR+.

I don't think it's OP, rather I think the BV is just a tad low at 162. The original DN has the same value as a BC at 180. The BC adds two heavy weapons and a couple of more ph-1's. So perhaps the CB should be a little closer to 170 to be rated correctly?

As a side not, have you seen Jeremy Grey's FED CG? It is an improved CA based on the CB design. Basically a CB without the flag bridge and the two rear ph-1's are RA instead of 360.

As to the Paravians, among my favorite to play. The QWT has generally been under-appreciated. Rapid fire, low cost, 3:1 against phaser damage with the total being needed to wipe out the splash and main elements (making it generally non-productive to even attempt phaser fire against them). Stringing them out makes it an uphill climb for the opponent. That's what I've done is generally stay at mid-range and continue lobbing them out. A good % will hit, if even for a little damage. It can start to quickly wear down the shields of the opponent so that you can then head in with OL's.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

More CB

Yes, perhaps it better to say that they are a bit under BPVed that OPed. I flew a Borak BC against it with Dennis flying the CB on Saturday, and in spite of playing a tight game, had to disengage. I say tight because afterwards Dennis said that I hadn't made any mistakes. Yet the CB with its triple punch of Photons, Phaser 1s, and drones cut a hole in my ship, and I wasn't able to do the same to him. Perhaps on an open map things would have gone better. I have been trying to find a ship with equal BPV that can win against it, without success so far.

I haven't seen the FED CG. I agree the Paravians are good, though I have only fought them, not played them. They are beatable though.


Try one of the plasma races (notably, the Romulan). The Feds historically have troubles against them. Heck, the Paravians might do well, since we've been on the subject.

The Paravians don't have anything in the 165-BPV range, but their CCa packs a pretty big punch; being able to cruise at speed 26 while pumping out 5 standard torps every turn (speed of 16 if those are all overloads or he's making heavy use of phasers+batts). Inside of overload range those *standard* torps are going to take down a shield. They also have the advantage that the Paravian can launch outside of overload range, maneuver to avoid range-8, and still force the Fed to eat them on a forward shield if he wants a chance of a shot.

Federation CG

The Federation CG is from Jeremy Gray:


One of many excellent SSD's he's done over the year. Although it isn't 'official' it is a logical outgrowth to the CA just as the CB was a logical outgrowth to the CC.

A note on the Paravians, remember that according to the designer of the Paravians the QWT torps fire out of the 6/1/2 shields. This was never clarified and I pointed it out shortly after C6 came out. It was brought up to TPTB at ADB and they made a snap judgement that it only fires out of the #1. However, they never consulted the designer who just a few posts later informed everyone that the QWT was designed and playtested to fire out of the 6/1/2 shield facings. As such, I do NOT find the ADB 'ruling' to be valid and we do NOT follow it. We go by the way the weapons was designed and playtested.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser


Thanks for the info and advice. We have a friend who plays on rare occasions and loves the Paravians. I'll ask him if knows about he arc rule.

I haven't played the plasma races much, but I'll give one of them a try next time I face the CB.

QWT arc

Yeah, it just makes sense to play the Paravian as they were designed to be played (6/1/2 arcs) rather than a hasty and arbitrary decision that never consulted the designer or playtesters. The QWT was designed and playtested to fire 6/1/2 and that's the way they should be played.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

gorn CC

i'll take 3 Plas-S and 2 Plas-F over 4 Photons any day . . . they're flexible and not subject as much to the fickle dice

of course, that means a drawn out plasma ballet on my part . . . i ain't letting the opposition get to R8 if i can help it