Seltorians

I've gotten interested in the Selts recently and I figured I start a thread here in the Tactics section with them in mind.

In regards to the TCC mainly;

Reading comments in other threads, many consider the Selts either weak or sorta 'eh'. Fair enough. I'm curious how much play time the Selts had in tournaments as a whole. Of course they won't have the play time of many other ships since they haven't been around as long. That's understandable. But as I mentioned in another thread, rereading CL#34 the 'Victory' article mentions the Selts extensively. The winner that year was a Gorn TCC. It fought the Selt twice (same player). In the preliminaries the Selt mopped up the floor with the Gorn doing a 77 point alpha strike to seal the deal. The article didn't mention what was used for the alpha strike, but 77 points isn't shabby. The final game saw the Gorn win, but it looked like it was a close game that could have gone either way.

I've only played the Selt once and it was the standard SFB CA. The TCC looks pretty much the same, though it has one more shield cracker and two less shuttles.

Three shield crackers could really be substantial in an alpha strike. They fire during the marine stage, not the DF stage so you'll know ahead of time how well they do against the shield, perhaps even the amount of brick you may be facing for purposes of tracking their power. If all hit, that's 12 points off the shield. That's pretty much three standard disruptors. Now as was pointed out in another thread, they are great for shields and nothing else. But it can really help the alpha by taking out maybe half the shield first (or removing what was left of the shield).

The PC...yeah, pretty much a disruptor and perhaps just a smidge weaker...maybe, then maybe not. Hits for pretty much the same damage except R0. The to-hit about the same as a non UIM assisted disruptor. And can fire an OL for 3 points instead of 4 points. That could be fairly substantial. And if you manage to squeeze out that second shot it's like a standard disruptor for only 1 point instead of 2. It would seem that, though the PC capacitor can hold 5 points that 4 points would be the optimal goal. That's either an OL and a standard or two standards with a point left over. True, the 12 impulse delay could really suck at the wrong time but I suppose that was the built in weakness to cover the second possible shot. While two of the PC's are only FA, the other two have extended arcs. That is superior to many other DF ships that only have FA for the HW.

While a lack of seekers could be an issue (and many ships lack them) 8xPH-1's and 4xPH-3's is kinda wonderful.

These are just some initial impressions. Thoughts are very welcome. If you've played the Selt TCC or seen it played (like on SFBOL) how did it go? I'm thinking I might make this a 'ship of interest' in my upcoming tourney battles, hence the thread.

:)

The issue is the bug lacks

The issue is the bug lacks crunch power. Fleet action, that weakness goes away, just like with disruptors, but for the tourney scenario ... :(

Briefly, TPTB (or, more precisely, The Powers That Be Idiots) added a couple of Phaser 1s, bringing the total to 10. With a power curve from heck, PCs firing twice a turn, and more phasers than the phaser-boat WYN, it consistently crushed anyone who lacked a killer punch themselves.

It's the ISC taken to extreme. A great weapon, but not for a 1-1 on a closed map.

The_Geek wrote:

>>Briefly, TPTB (or, more precisely, The Powers That Be Idiots) added a couple of Phaser 1s, bringing the total to 10.<<

I see only 8xph-1's and 4xph-3's on the sanctioned TCA listed on the ADB website. Has this been upgraded but not changed on the website?

In regards to crunch power, I dunno. A PC that basically equals a disruptor (except at R0) that costs a point each less to fire + 3 more ph-1's than a Klink can muster + three shield crackers that may well be weakened or at least have the brick removed from three shield crackers isn't exactly wimpy. As noted above from the article, it mustered up a 77 point alpha which wrecked a Gorn TCC in a prelim game. Now no, 77 isn't equal to say a FED alpha with hot dice or a good Gorn anchor, but it ain't too shabby. Unfortunately the article didn't mention what weapons were used in the alpha and what hit/missed or if the SC's all hit or if they were used before the alpha.

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I just commented on the Selts

I just commented on the Selts in a different thread, but a quick recap here. On Schirmer's stats page on the BBS, the Selt ranks 11 out of 17. It comes in above the Romulan Firehawk, Lyran and Fed overall. Not bad at all.

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Pulling wings off bugs ...

The thought was the Selt was too weak - which it was, and still is.
They briefly introduced the 10 P1 version. Within a short span, as people learned how to fly it well, it really dominated.
So ADB downgraded it again.

And, at 11/17, 'downgrade' is the correct term :)

Selt

>>I just commented on the Selts in a different thread, but a quick recap here. On Schirmer's stats page on the BBS, the Selt ranks 11 out of 17. It comes in above the Romulan Firehawk, Lyran and Fed overall. Not bad at all.>>

Yeah, I still think that is more an indicator of who tries flying the Selt (and the small number of games used as a sample relative to the rest of the ships on the list) as opposed to indication that the Selt is a better ship than any of the above mentioned ships.

The Lyran has faster firing guns that hit more often and for more damage. And ESGs. And dual shuttle bays. The Lyran is tough to win with. But it is certainly better than the Selt.

The Firehawk is one of the best ships in the game. I suspect that it comes in low on the list due to it being popular among newer players (as it is strong in and of itself).

The Fed isn't spectacular, no, but it is also better than the Selt. It also has a lot of novice players taking it out for a spin as well.

>>In regards to crunch power, I dunno. A PC that basically equals a disruptor (except at R0) that costs a point each less to fire>>

See, but it isn't. It is always doing either a damage bracket worse or having 1 worse to hit than a disruptor in all range brackets. Which is very significant. Especially at R2, where it hits on a 1-4 for 8 damage, and everything else in the game goes up to a 1-5 to hit (or whatever HBs do at R2, which is still an improvement over R3-4).

That it fires twice a turn is almost completely useless, as if you are firing it at long range (which you probably need to do if you want to get the second shot in as an OL at close range), you are firing them for 2 power and hitting on a 1-3. Which is a bad plan. So you don't bother firing them early for the dual firing option. At which point you are just arming each PC with 3 total power for a single OL shot. Which isn't bad, in a statistical energy to damage sense, no, but you are likely missing more when it counts than you would be with disruptors, and always doing less damage. And then having to wait an extra 4 impulses over the turn break before firing them again, at which point you have probably taken another volley of internals and lost another PC before it fires.

The 8xP1s are nice. Except that you are usually only ever firing 6 of them at once. And using some to shoot down seeking weapons (along with the P3s). The SCs aren't horrible, but they fall off the ship quickly, and rearming them is expensive for what they do.

>> If you've played the Selt TCC or seen it played (like on SFBOL) how did it go? >>

I've played it many times. It usually goes badly. It wins occasionally (usually due to unexpectedly good luck on the weapon dice). The last tournament I entered with it saw me killed in the first round vs a WAX. All the WAX had to do to kill it was move forward at moderate speeds and arm weapons. The Selt (i.e. me) was forced to try every squirrelly trick in the book to avoid getting killed every turn. And in the end, got killed anyway. I've played against it many times. Usually, I kill it. Kin Lin killed me in the quarter finals of the Gold Hat in, like, '07 or so 'cause I did something really obviously dumb--I knew I was going to need to be able to HET during the first quarter of the turn when we engaged (as he was in the corner), and yet I plotted speed 31 anyway. So when the impulse came where I really needed to HET, I was like "Doh. I knew I was going to need to HET. Why did I plot speed 31?" And so I lost. I mean, I wasn't certain to win if I had HET at that point anyway or anything, but if I had been able to HET, I would have had a game and probably was in the driver's seat. But instead, ya know, dumb. Which happens in a real time tournament where it is Saturday afternoon when you have been playing games non stop since Thursday morning.

I mean, ya know, it isn't the *worst* ship in the tournament (the current playest Andro still wins that honor). And arguably, the TKE might be worse (although I don't think it is, personally). And with clever, careful play and reasonable dice, it can do ok. But in general, it has a lot working against it and very little to recommend it. And has some very tough match ups. And very few favorable match ups.

Nitpick

>> Especially at R2, where it hits on a 1-4 for 8 damage, and everything else in the game goes up to a 1-5 to hit (or whatever HBs do at R2, which is still an improvement over R3-4).

Plasma bolts are still 1-4, of course. But as bolts aren't a plasma's proper job, we'll let that one slide. And PPDs are completely out. And ADDs are 1-3, but they're weird. But that's it (and I checked Omega, C4, C5 and Y1 as well!). PCs are not the best weapon.

I think the bug needs a couple of GAS (the real CA has 4). The Jindarian gets a couple of prospecting shuttles, so there's a kinda precedent. It might imbalance it against plasma (6 weasels!) unless there was some prohibition against using them for WWs.

PCs

>>Plasma bolts are still 1-4, of course. But as bolts aren't a plasma's proper job, we'll let that one slide. And PPDs are completely out. And ADDs are 1-3, but they're weird. But that's it (and I checked Omega, C4, C5 and Y1 as well!). PCs are not the best weapon.>>

Let me re-phrase that. "Especially at R2, where it hits on a 1-4 for 8 damage, and everything else in the game that is relevant to this discussion goes up to a 1-5 to hit…"

>>I think the bug needs a couple of GAS (the real CA has 4). The Jindarian gets a couple of prospecting shuttles, so there's a kinda precedent. It might imbalance it against plasma (6 weasels!) unless there was some prohibition against using them for WWs.>>

Other than the 2 extra weasels, adding 2xGAS to the Seltorian isn't going to help in in the tournament at all. You can't land shuttles on opposing ships. You can't use them for BP actions. I mean, like, yeah, having 6 shuttles is certainly better than having 4 shuttles, but other than that, it isn't, like, gonna help the Seltorian do anything better than it does now. Other than play sit-n-spin, which is already probably the best thing to do with the ship most of the time.

Other than the initial alpha

Other than the initial alpha strike where the SC are used prior to the PC/phaser salvo, would you use them? Would you arm them to 'keep at the ready in case' or forego them and used the power elsewhere?

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