Base Assault

I believe our next battle is gonna be a Base Station assault (I'm lukewarm on the idea but my gaming buddy wants to fly one). Since I only participated in one such battle long ago, I was hoping for a few pointers.

#1 - We came up with a 450 BPV total per side. I think(???) the Base Station is roughly 150 bpv (no modules), so that would leave him about 300 points for ships (and accessories). Is that adequate, insufficient, or more than enough? We're trying to keep this reasonably small.

#2 - Should I (the attacker) take a scout? Handy to have around, or essential to success?

#3 - I believe the MRB (which I don't have) now allows bases to fire their phasers without blinding sensor channels. Is that correct? Even type-4 phasers? Do other heavy weapons (torpedoes) still blind sensor channels?

#4 - Can an enemy scout ship "lend" Offensive EW to a base?

Any comments and insight is greatly appreciated.

Base assault

#1: 120 bpv is (or was before 1999) the base for a BS, but it'll vary by year: there are automatic refits, drone speed upgrades and the rest. So 450 is probably about as high as you want to go or it'll become a fleet battle with a base hanging around as a side note.

#2: If playing with EW, yes. Otherwise it'll be slow and frustrating as you can't hit anything, although that'll depend on the exact nature of the BS: without modules, a BS is somewhat underpowered. 22 power is 4 HK + 12 phasers + 2 HW + 2 WW + 2 scout + no EW left.

#3: Correct, yes, no (IIRC). This was all part of the 1999 second printing where bases got a general upgrade, including spare shuttles, changing rotation and firing just before weapons come into arc. It was on the ADB site somewhere but I can't find it. Maybe it's in a CLog.

#4: Don't see why not.

450 seemed kinda high

i'm thinking maybe 350 +/- is a better idea
(and maybe a Mauler?)

What are the races?

What are the races?

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Mauler

Maulers in SFB are very different to those in F&E. In F&E, a mauler will eat a base alive - that's what it's for. In SFB, it'll tend to just soak up a bunch of damage with batteries on the way in and maybe establish a big tractor so the base can't weasel off 200 points of plasma; the mauler weapon is almost an afterthought.

Like IKV says: what are the races? Feds will sit at R25 and bang away with prox photons and P1s for several hours; Gorns will sweep into R15 or R10 and throw plasma until you run out of shuttles; Roms and Klinks might do the mauler as above. Very different approaches.

Also, minefield? Fighters? Planet?

Maulers

>>Maulers in SFB are very different to those in F&E. In F&E, a mauler will eat a base alive - that's what it's for. In SFB, it'll tend to just soak up a bunch of damage with batteries on the way in and maybe establish a big tractor so the base can't weasel off 200 points of plasma; the mauler weapon is almost an afterthought.>>

You can't tractor bases, due to positional stabilizers.

But other than that, yeah. Maulers are mostly useless in SFB. They are really good at getting shot and absorbing damage. They aren't horrible if you can get one in the exact right spot from a ship you want to whack at exactly range 10 on impulse 32, where you can use all the batteries to knock down a shield (maybe) on 32 and then put all the engines into the Mauler on impulse 1 and maybe cripple something by wiping out the Mauler's engines. But generally speaking, they just get shot, use all the batteries for reinforcement, and just distract things.

Maulers

The Andros are the only good mauler guys out there. But you still have to be careful not to try to build up too much power for you mauler shot. It can be a fine line between blowing the other guy away and playing "Pop goes the Weasel".

scratch the mauler

she will see combat (probably briefly) someday

Fed Base Station all the fixins (no modules, fuzzy rules)
Fed NCL luxury edition, fast drones
Gorn DD replete, with Sabot G (only torp)

no mines (t-bombs optional)
no terrain
all drones Type I speed 32 only (type iv are banned based on a previous bad experience - little fighter doggie drones (speed 32) are available to fighters only)
fighters optional
gunboats optional
EW yes (ECM drones do not exist)
MRS yes (for a price) - SWAC no (see ECM drone above)
extra boarding parties or drones or whatnot available at the checkout line
ALL this stuff has to be paid for

i wanna fly something other than the usual Bad Guys (Klingon Romulan Lyran Orion(kinda)) - and the other Good Guys (Kzinti Hydran) are right out

fer ships i wuz thinking
FF scout
Light Cruiser or War Cruiser
War Cruiser or Heavy Cruiser
depending on how the points shake out (350 - 375)

Tholians(Neo) ... Andro ... Seltorian (never know until ya try) ... Vudar ... bring some Jindo rock ships in there and go mano-y-mano?

i really don't want a marathon battle (maybe there's some Orions on board the base station who are sympathetic to my cause)

Opponents

FF scouts are usually rather underpowered and prone to being picked as the first thing to eliminate. Consider that you'll have only about 12 power after HK, 7 goes on OEW leaving 5 for everything else. At R15 from the BS, 4 P4s will do about 14, pretty much removing a shield. Add a photon or a few P1s and it's internals. But obviously you may not have much choice.

If you're excluding the Alliance and Coalition forces, that pretty much leaves WYN, ISC or DF only.

WYN = Klingon/Kzinti crossbreed, so you might feel you've done that before. And you'll find the map cluttered with time-consuming drones.

ISC should be OK: CS+SC+FF is 354 and allows a real PPD ship. I don't think they have an FFS.

Tholians will want to put in a web firewall to block the base while killing the ships. Otherwise just bang away from R15.

I can't immediately build an Andro fleet at that BPV without going short or long on Sat ships, but I dare say it's possible. Displace the defenders out one by one and kill them, then nail the base.

Seltorian tactics are...simple, unless you want to try capturing the BS, which is probably worth a go. Otherwise play something more interesting.

Jindo: see Seltorian above, but without the option of capturing it.

Dead Base

Honestly, with the restrictions in place for the base, it's toast. No mines, no modules, no Type IV drones. It's dead.

If the mission is just the destruction of the base, I'd suggest going with the ISC. They can do it at range.

Neo-Tholians would be entertaining, but you're likely going to end up in failure as the attacker if you're not experienced with the web caster.

The good news is, without mines, you don't have to worry about surprises. Without modules you don't have to worry about the base having enough power to handle everything it could possibly do.

So take an ISC ship with a pair of PPDs, some gunline ships with good plasma power, a scout ship to help offset the base's special sensors, and have fun blowing up the base!

thanx to all for the input

>> "it's toast"

that's what i like to hear

although i did find the new base rules in the addenda from the official website (holy kow)

no blinding of sensor channels
can "loan" ECCM to itself
accelerated repair
MRS good out to 10 hexes
variable rotation rate
improved firing arcs before + after rotation

i think the BPVs just got smaller (maybe 325 now)

Neo-tholian

Barring a frightening mobile defence (e.g. Stingers), a pair of web casters in the attacking fleet pretty much guarantees a win.
Step 1) drop three hexes of web adjacent to the base
Step 2) race two ships in very close to the base
Step 3) cast web onto those ships, starting a web ring. In such a way that a) the ships are immune to base fire and b) the centre of the web-ring will be 4 hexes from the base
Step 4) move all Tholians into the web ring, fire phasers, periodically beam 'Request for unconditional surrender' to the base.

It's ugly, brutal, and surprisingly effective.

Web thickness

>>Step 3) cast web onto those ships, starting a web ring.>>

I've asked this question before but didn't get an answer: How think in web? 1m, 50m, 1000m. If a ship can get stuck in it has to be fairly wide right.

As thick as it needs to be

I don't think the "thickness" of web is at all important, nor has it ever been mentioned to my knowledge.

So just say that it's as thick as it needs to be in order to stop ships.

Web

I infer that it pretty much fills the hex, so thousands of km wide.

Assaulting a base like that is fine, but you still need to deal with the ships while maintaining web, and you'll be a sitting duck for seekers until the web is very strong.

dastardly

i was thinking a web-caster might be usefu

Web

>>I've asked this question before but didn't get an answer: How think in web? 1m, 50m, 1000m. If a ship can get stuck in it has to be fairly wide right.>>

Of all the things in the game are are completely preposterous ("I have an energy sphere around my ship! It is the size of Neptune!"), web is the one that bears the least scrutiny. Don't even think about it. It is a thing in a game that does some stuff. It works perfectly fine as a mechanism in a game. Don't try to make it make sense.

Commanders G10.55 is why

Commanders G10.55: If a ship (or a base, FRD, or shuttles) is in a web hex, anything launched or undocked from it is caught by the web until it expends enough power to escape. as if it had entered the web from a non-web hex. This also applies to ships undocking from bases and FDR's.

So 1) it has to be big enough to completely cover a starbase.
or
2) it is thin-ish and immediately expands to surround anything that touches it.

But either way, would the Tholians be able to imbed a NSM in web. You wouldn't be able to shoot. You probably can't (shouldn't) be able to enter the wed to shoot it with making it blow. This would be more relevant if it was a Tholian base that Sporki was attacking though.

A Base Station and Fast drone

A Base Station and Fast drone is anachronistic. It would be a Battle Station at that year. You are free to do what you like.... but don't be surprised when you get wonky results.

1) Mines. Without mines the Base is toast. BS/BT/SB are BRUTAL at mid range where HVY weapons can't overload and ph-1 are still anemic... ph-IV are punching big holes in things. Minefields hold the enemy at that optimal range while the ph-IV beat you up.

2) Hanger Modules and Power Modules. Heck even Cargo Modules help... but all they really do is extend the time it takes to kill the base... once the phasers start getting shot off... its over. Hanger module is really key as you can set areas of the minefields where your fighters can operate safely but enemy ships will go poof. You can also play really brutal games by setting the "count" on some small mines to something like 4 or 5. Shoot drones down this supposedly "clean" lane.... the enemy sends this drone wave down it.... and boom... loses 6 to 12 drones. (cause with fighters on the map.. you just aren't going to impress the base unless you send alot)

3) NCL at the base, while legal, is a bit silly. In theory it might be there to pick up supplies but that isn't "normal". A base will usually have a 2-3 police ships assigned, 1 of which you would expect to be out, 1 would be out or refitting to go out, and the 3rd would be getting repairs or the crew on leave. There would also likely be a FF attached to the base commander, but if at war, a fleet commander likely would have stolen it. at 450 BVP you will have to put something in there...

I would suggest 300 BVP of defender + 250 or so of reinforcement that arrives on turn X. Players can bid on the BVP of the reinforcement and what turn X is. Lowest bid takes base.

4) MRS. Get one. Get two if you can. Put on opposite side of base. Keep alive.

5) Maulers are AWESOME at base assault.... if you are playing with mines. Drive in, eat NSM, spend batteries bouncing it, get shot by 2 ph-iv.... E-Decel, tac about, leave (or HET). (putting 30 points of reinforcement on the #4 next turn for the next set of ph-IV) The mauler cannon? Useless.

6) Attacker should consider bringing a repair ship. Especially a combat repair ship like a Sp-R or a tug with one repair pod and one Drone/Battle pod.

There is a SH that has a Ranger (9 st-I) and a Crusader attacking a Klink BS. (pre-refit) No mines, no fighter modules. The goal is not to blow up the base... but to blow up the base and get off the map in less than 3 turns. I won it handily, even brought home some fighters. That tells you how fragile a base without a minefield is.

A Base Station and Fast drone

A Base Station and Fast drone is anachronistic. It would be a Battle Station at that year. You are free to do what you like.... but don't be surprised when you get wonky results.

1) Mines. Without mines the Base is toast. BS/BT/SB are BRUTAL at mid range where HVY weapons can't overload and ph-1 are still anemic... ph-IV are punching big holes in things. Minefields hold the enemy at that optimal range while the ph-IV beat you up.

2) Hanger Modules and Power Modules. Heck even Cargo Modules help... but all they really do is extend the time it takes to kill the base... once the phasers start getting shot off... its over. Hanger module is really key as you can set areas of the minefields where your fighters can operate safely but enemy ships will go poof. You can also play really brutal games by setting the "count" on some small mines to something like 4 or 5. Shoot drones down this supposedly "clean" lane.... the enemy sends this drone wave down it.... and boom... loses 6 to 12 drones. (cause with fighters on the map.. you just aren't going to impress the base unless you send alot)

3) NCL at the base, while legal, is a bit silly. In theory it might be there to pick up supplies but that isn't "normal". A base will usually have a 2-3 police ships assigned, 1 of which you would expect to be out, 1 would be out or refitting to go out, and the 3rd would be getting repairs or the crew on leave. There would also likely be a FF attached to the base commander, but if at war, a fleet commander likely would have stolen it. at 450 BVP you will have to put something in there...

I would suggest 300 BVP of defender + 250 or so of reinforcement that arrives on turn X. Players can bid on the BVP of the reinforcement and what turn X is. Lowest bid takes base.

4) MRS. Get one. Get two if you can. Put on opposite side of base. Keep alive.

5) Maulers are AWESOME at base assault.... if you are playing with mines. Drive in, eat NSM, spend batteries bouncing it, get shot by 2 ph-iv.... E-Decel, tac about, leave (or HET). (putting 30 points of reinforcement on the #4 next turn for the next set of ph-IV) The mauler cannon? Useless.

6) Attacker should consider bringing a repair ship. Especially a combat repair ship like a Sp-R or a tug with one repair pod and one Drone/Battle pod.

There is a SH that has a Ranger (9 st-I) and a Crusader attacking a Klink BS. (pre-refit) No mines, no fighter modules. The goal is not to blow up the base... but to blow up the base and get off the map in less than 3 turns. I won it handily, even brought home some fighters. That tells you how fragile a base without a minefield is.

battle size

>> "NCL at the base, while legal, is a bit silly . . . A base will usually have a 2-3 police ships assigned . . . There would also likely be a FF attached to the base commander . . .

i'm kinda getting that idea now . . . the BPV for this battle keeps getting lower and lower (which is good - trying to keep this thing small as possible)

and the Mauler is back on the table!

decisions, decisions

tale of the tape

158 Fed Base Station (full refits & fast drones)
075 Gorn DD (refit & Sabot G)
071 Fed FF (no G-rack or refits available)
304 Total Points

against (not because it's a good idea but just because it's something different to fly):

135 Jindo CL(rockship) (3 WRG and 3 Phas-I and 12 shuttle spaces)
090 Jindo SC(FF) (4 Phas-I and 4 Scout Channels and 4 shuttles)
079 Vudar FFL (2 Ion Canon, 1 IPG, 4 Phas-I, 2 Phas-III and 2 shuttles)
304 Total Points

and yes i can hear all of yez moaning and groaning

the Jindo is kinda slow, but going against a BS i figured i could get away with it . . . plus there's gotta be a way for me to put those "rock-armor" shields and plethora of prospecting shuttles to good use

t-bombs and bases

is it legal to place a t-bomb next to a base and then run a shuttle (or more) in at "high" speed to try to detonate it?

the base could lock-on (4 or less) to it, tractor it (power), phaser it (6 ECM non-negotiable), and do 4+ points or detonates?
(i've never seen it done in a game before under any circumstances)

i'm thinking t-bombs (one real, one dummy) from the Jindo rock ship (shields and Anti-Transport-Fields down but rock-armor and associated boarding party penalties in place) next to the base - combined with all those shuttles to trigger it - might be worthy of drawing some firepower attention away from the ships

ps - the addenda/errata on the official website says the Fed BS SSD is wrong ... the ADD rack should really be a drone G-rack (and yet no mention of the rulebook being in error, which clearly shows the Fed BS with an ADD assigned to that weapon slot)

it kinda makes sense to me ... the ADD wasn't a Fed mainstay, but i could see one on a base (since it already has the D-rack)

what would you guys allow (or insist upon)? if we go with the G-rack (fast drones required), i get 4 bpv to buy my t-bomb + dummy

Not in the same hex

A mine won't arm if it's in the same hex as a unit, but an adjacent hex is OK*. The usual trigger is a drone, as it's cheaper and more convenient than a shuttle, as it moves every impulse.

* actually a bit more complex, of course. M2.31, M3.22. You may need to get creative with detection radius.

schmart phone delay syndrome

oops - i was editing my original post after you already got yer reply up

i'd likely be placing them by transporter, and we don't use hidden deployment if dropped out of the shuttle hatch - so i don't know if that makes a difference

is there anything otherwise about "identifying" a t-bomb before you sweep it with phasers?