Fed vs. Klink

This section hasn't been used in quite a while so I thought I'd liven it up with some (hopefully) interesting discussion.

To kick it off, the traditional duel: Federation CA vs. Klingon D7 (regular non-tournament ships) starting at WSIII.

FED CA (125) with CAR refit (+4), Plus refit (+14), AWR refit (+2) and Y175 refit (+0) for a total of 145 BVP.

Klingon D7 (121) with UIM refit (+5), B refit (+7), K refit (+3) and Y175 refit (+4) for a total of 140 BVP.

Which would you chose to be, and why?

If you're the FED, how would you load your G-rack? What would your two specialty shuttles be, and why? What's your starting and overall strategy?

If you're the Klink, what do you do with the extra 5 points, why? How do you load your B-racks, why? What do you do with the two specialty shuttles (particularly since you only have two)? And what's your starting and overall strategy?

What Kind of Map?

As is always the case, the type of map is a *huge* determinant on what is going to happen.

Also, EW? Yes or no? Also a huge difference in the game.

On a closed map with no EW, I'll take the Fed.

On an open map with EW, I'll take the Klingon.

Seeing as how I've played

Seeing as how I've played them more, I'd choose Federation.

We always played Closed Map with EW.

My long time opponent has always been the Klingon.
(Though I've flown the Klingons a couple dozen times, they are not high on my list of alternate races to play)

Year?

The year is important, mostly in determining what drones you get. If it's 175, they're all medium, which costs the Klink about 4-8 BPV (depending on type-4 and 6s) and the Fed about 1, on the basis that he'll take ADDs. Double that for Y180. So in practice the Klink might out-BPV the Fed.

And if it's Y180, the Klink will take an ECM drone (plus reload) because they're stupidly good.

Klingon will take 1 or 2 SPs, because he can. The loadout might well include a few type-6s because a) they don't need control channels, b) he wants to keep some real drones for reloads, c) ADDs aren't so hot against a Fed. There's no real point in loading a suicide if you can manage an SP, and a single WW is a mistake (you usually want 2).

Fed G-rack is about half ADDs and half drones; he'll probably want to buy more drones with points.

Otherwise, buy BPs and T-bombs, or an MRS if you can afford it.

Should have added map/year

Let's say Y180 and fixed map. That's what we normally play.

However, if you want to discuss different years (like above) please feel free to do so. I wanted to define some specifics for the sake of continuity, however, I don't want it to be so rigid that different things can't be discussed. So we'll go with Y180 and fixed map but if anyone wants to toss out different years for sake of discussion then by all means :)

Almost forgot EW. We don't use it, but again if folks want to add it to the conversation that's great.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

BV of 160

Been a while since I've played 'regular' SFB so bear with me. Let's cap the BV at 160 for the ships. That will allow some drone mods to M & F for Y180.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Initial thoughts for the

Initial thoughts for the Klink: B racks are 6 drones with two reloads. So that's a total of 32 drones on the ship. IIRC, it is a cost of .5 to go from a slow type I to a medium. So that's 16 points to convert both racks + reloads. Considering I'd likely make both shuttles SP's, I'd keep the reloads as Type-IM so each SP has a full 6 each. For my rack drones, I'm leaning towards converting 2xtype-I to 1xtype-IV to have three IV's in each rack on the ship. Going from 2xI to 1xIV doesn't cost anything. I know that going from a IM to a IF is another .5 each. I don't remember what it would be going from 2xIM to 1xIVF though. I'm assuming just a .5? If so that would be 3 points to make both racks have a total of 6xIVF (3 each rack).

That's what I'm thinking at the moment but want to take a closer look at some other drone mods. I'm not sure that we are going to use ECM drones in our FTF games. Only used them once years ago and don't remember all the perks, but the comment above about them being 'stupid good' seems to apply from what I remember.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Drones

>>Initial thoughts for the Klink: B racks are 6 drones with two reloads. So that's a total of 32 drones on the ship. IIRC, it is a cost of .5 to go from a slow type I to a medium. So that's 16 points to convert both racks + reloads.>>

When paying for drone loads, you pay pay for the initial loading of the rack, and then you get an identical set of reloads for free (two identical sets for free if you have double reloads, like on a ship with the y175 refit). So a Klingon with 2x B-racks that filled each B rack with 4xIM and 1xIVM (6 spaces of drones) would pay 2.5 for the first rack (5x.5 M speed upgrades) and then another 2.5 for the second rack (assuming it is identical, which I am doing currently) for a total of +5BPV, and then for reloads, you get a total of 16xIM and 4xIVM for free (as that is identical free reloads for each rack, twice, due to the y175 refit).

You don't have to make each rack identical. And there is room to move with changing reloads as well (I'm pretty sure that if you want, you can make your reloads however you'd like, as long as they don't cost any more than your rack load outs, but generally speaking, you just, like, load a rack and then get identical reloads).

>>Considering I'd likely make both shuttles SP's, I'd keep the reloads as Type-IM so each SP has a full 6 each. For my rack drones, I'm leaning towards converting 2xtype-I to 1xtype-IV to have three IV's in each rack on the ship. Going from 2xI to 1xIV doesn't cost anything.>>

You pay for speed upgrades after you decide what is in the rack, so swapping 2xIM for 1xIVM actually saves you half a point (as it costs 1 point to upgrade 2xI to 2xIM but only .5 point to upgrade IxIV to 1xIVM).

>>I know that going from a IM to a IF is another .5 each. I don't remember what it would be going from 2xIM to 1xIVF though. I'm assuming just a .5? If so that would be 3 points to make both racks have a total of 6xIVF (3 each rack).>>

You change the 2xI to 1xIV first, and then pay to upgrade speed. 1xIVF costs 1 point (upgrading to F costs 1).

>>That's what I'm thinking at the moment but want to take a closer look at some other drone mods. I'm not sure that we are going to use ECM drones in our FTF games. Only used them once years ago and don't remember all the perks, but the comment above about them being 'stupid good' seems to apply from what I remember.>>

ECM drones are just stupid, really. But they are something you can use, so you might as well use them. I think they cost 1 point over and above a regular drone (they might not, however). You launch one. It chases your ship, changing speed with you up to its maximum (so a speed 32 ECM drone is more useful than a speed 20 ECM drone). As long as it is in your hex until it dies (3 turns, unless you make it extended range or something), you get 3 free natural ECM. You only can benefit from 1 at a time.

Drone loadouts also have rules governing how many "special" drones you can have (armored, ECM, MWH, ATG, faster than usual, etc.); The Kzinti get 25% of their spaces as "restricted" and 50% "limited". So a BC with a y175 refit has 20 spaces of drones (2xB rack, 2xC rack), which means it can have 5 spaces of restricted drones and 10 spaces of limited drones. Limited drones are generally armored drones, ATG drones, and sometimes F drones. Restricted are generally all the weird ones. The Klingons only get 10%/20% restricted/limited. You'd have to look up the actual drone rules in Advanced Missions to get more specifics.

Excellent info, thank you. I

Excellent info, thank you. I foresee a definite reread of the drone rules, perhaps tonight. Particularly since my son enjoys the Kzin as his favorite ship. And of course, I often enjoy the Klinks. After I give it a good reread I'll post what my picks are for this duel.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Klink B-rack

B-rack holds 6 spaces w/two reloads. D7 has two racks. That's 32 spaces of drones. Here's my plan:

On both racks change two type I's into one type IV for both racks. So each rack will hold four type I's and one type IV (reloads the same configuration). Spend the points to upgrade each to S32 so that's 5 point per rack or 10 points total. So I'm at 150.

Replace four ADD's with four type VI drones for one point. Upgrade the speed to M which is a 1/4 point each so that's another point. Total so far 152.

Extra UIM module for 5 points, total 157.

6 extra BP for 3 points for a grand total of 160.

SP #1 load out = five type IF (to give the impression that one is a IV).
SP #2 load out = four type IF and one IVF (to hopefully sneak the IV).

Basically the four type VI drones would be held for a situation where I'm within 8 hexes (probably a LOT closer) and facing a down shield. Even though they'll only do a couple points damage if fired on the FED, well 2-4 internals at no cost to me might net we a weapon or power.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Type 6 drones

...are often better used as a sure kill against drones and shuttles or to add to an SP. The classic use is 1xIV, 2xVI and 3xI. There's a range problem, but it does add targets that the opponent has to shoot down. Although in this case, your opponent has 8 labs so won't be fooled easily.

And I think you have to upgrade them to fast in Y180, so hand back 2 BPs. Being a Klink you have lots anyway.

It's certainly not a bad idea to shoot them at a down shield, except that a) you might want something to kill his drone(s) and b) by the time you get to the knife fight you'll quite probably have given the ADD up to damage. The tournament is a bit different because you don't have to reveal which rack launched the drone, so it could be a I, a IV or a VI.

Good catch on the type VI

I missed that on having to have VIF so good catch. Yep, take back a couple of BP and add in the Fast VI's.

Now I'll need to take a look at the FED....

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser