Need opinions, Frax and the EPC

Alright guys, I'd like your opinions and input please. We're going to work the Frax into our FTF games as a real race, probably to the east of the Tholians and south of the Romulans. Keeping with our modified house rule format, the disruptors are being replaced. We're looking at the Energy Pulse Cannon, courtesy of the PHD Shipyard file:///C:/Users/David/Documents/SFB/thgwpn.htm

Quick outline of the EPC (at the bottom of that PHD page). Three modes of firing; standard, wide disbursement (proximity) and rapid pulse. Standard is 2 points of power, so is WD and rapid pulse per PHD is 4 points for 2 shots, 4 impulses apart. No hold. The 'to-hit' chart is about the same as a photon torp. Damage is 4 points regardless of range. No overloads (rapid pulse is in place of OL)

I'm wondering/considering allowing three shots per turn if 6 points are applied. Perhaps 8 impulses apart instead of 4. Here are some thoughts for that;

The Frax is going to use the AFD system (Anti-fighter device). This is a 12 shot ADD and Ph-G combined per ADB rules. Each can be used on an impulse up to established maximums. The AFD can only be fired against size 6 or 7 objects i.e. drones, plasma, shuttles & fighters. It cannot be fired against ships (have to check if PF are viable targets). Since we're going to use the AFD system, the Frax only has type I phasers and no type III.

The extra firing could in some ways compensate for having no type III's. Requiring 6 points would limit the number of EPC's that can actually be loaded to this extent, perhaps one or two with reserve power. In all probability the normal 2-pulse would be used more often I would think.

Increasing from 4 impulses (per PHD rules) to 8 impulses would further limit/balance the 3 shot option.

Perhaps if an EPC is fired that 3rd time in a turn it will need a one-turn cool down as a penalty???

I have made a Frax CA SSD that I think looks pretty darn good. Haven't posted or submitted it yet. If anyone is interested in my shooting it to them in an email for evaluation I'd be happy to do so.



First link in my OP is wrong.

First link in my OP is wrong. Should be

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Definitely not 3.

You're doing a straight over conversion? From disruptors to EPCs? I definitely wouldn't up the ability to shoot 3 shots a turn.

Right now they fire the same rate as disruptors normally. They have really good hit numbers at longer ranges for less damage or lower hit numbers for better damage than a disruptor.

If they go to "pulse" mode, they fire twice, being the equivalent of an overloaded disruptor.

If you put in a third pulse, you're effectively giving them an extra disruptor for every two EPCs on the ship. That's not offsetting the lack of Ph-3s, that's increasing the heavy weapons on the ships.

I'd say just leave the Frax weaponry as is (after converting the disruptors to EPCs) and leave the EPC as is. The Frax, where you're talking about putting them, wouldn't have need for phaser-3s as an "anti-ship" close-in weapon. It's got plasma protection with the AFD and anti-fighter protection with it as well. That's all it really needs. The potentcy of the EPC in pulse-mode will be plenty when it comes to getting in too close with a ship.

That's just my opinion...take it leave it.

I appreciate your input.

I appreciate your input. You're probably right in regards to leaving the EPC at 2 per turn. I do think it needs to be upped from a 4 impulse second firing to an 8 impulse second firing.

That brings up the question of the AFD. Is it just me, or does a 12 shot ADD along with a Ph-G sound 'too' strong? Even with it only being able to fire at size 6 & 7 objects the CC/CA has 4 of them. That just seems like a heck of a lot of ADD's, not to mention Ph-G's.

Perhaps a better 'AFD' would be a 6 or 12 shot ADD along with a single Ph-3? The ADD's are normal and the Ph-3 can fire normally? And maybe cut them down from 4 on a CC/CA to perhaps 2?


My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

If you want, cut the ADD down

If you want, cut the ADD down to 6. I wouldn't touch the Ph-G, though. You were just considering upping a weapon to account for the lack of Ph-3. Why then would you want to hinder them even more by reducing the ability to damage plasmas (the most likely heavy weapon they'll be facing based on your location) by 75%?

Your example of the CA/CC with 4 AFDs, that gives them 4 gats to handle all plasmas that a CA/CC from a Romulan ship would be able to launch at them (A couple S and a couple F). You really want them to have to use their primary phasers as the primary means of weakening the plasmas?

My suggestion, keep the number of AFDs the same. Reduce the ADDs to 6. Keep the Ph-G. You neuter them too much, no one will want to fly them.

Been taking a hard look at

Been taking a hard look at this. I've come to the conclusion that the AFD is too much, particularly against seeking weapon races. And I would prefer keeping the Ph-G as a Hydran only weapon. It is one of the things that makes them unique. With this in mind, I'm going to playtest the following;

AFD has a 6 shot ADD rack w/2 reloads plus a Ph-RP (which is a Ph-3 which can be Rapid Pulsed twice in a single turn. The cost is 1 point to charge the Ph-RP. It can fire one pulse per impulse up to the maximum of two shots. It cannot fire both shots in a single impulse. This retains the flavor of the Hydran Ph-G while still allowing the AFD 'somthing' unique. It can fire in either mode during a single impulse, but not both. It can only fire at size 6 & 7 targets).

I might switch them over to the west of the Tholians, south of the Klingons as I might put the Hinhan below the Roms.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

IKVAvenger -- Agree: PH-G should be Hydran only

I never liked another races having the PH-G, including the Fed. I can see the Hydrans designing the RP and exporting it. Much like the US with it's F-16 and F-15, we'll sell it to our friends. But unless we really, really trust you (i.e. Belgium), you are going to get our not-as-good export version (i.e. Saudi). Go ahead and drop the ADD to 6 too. Unless you are invading the Kzin Homeworld, you should never need 48 ADDs. Map placement to the west of the Tholians makes since. That way you could justify having the multi-shot PH by saying that either/both their ships or the Hydrans are running Klingon space to trade tech.

BTW, where would you put the Dalian Sway if not just outside the Tholian Home Galaxy?

I agree with your comments on

I agree with your comments on the Ph-G being Hydran only. We don't use them with Feds either (ships or fighters). We dropped the ADD to 6 to see how it plays. Still might be too much. Perhaps we may find that a CC/CA ship only should have 2 instead of 4 AFD's. Perhaps 1 each RS/LS (though of course the arc doesn't affect the ADD portion.....or, maybe it should on a Frax to limit the weapon a bit. That might not be a bad idea, have the ADD keep the same arc as the Ph-RP. Hmmmm)

I've not heard of the Dalian Sway. What are they?

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser


The Frax already rock with regards to having awesome arcs ... allowing it to use all its shields.
Looking at the EPC, that weapon will complement that aspect even more so.
I'm also against the three pulse concept. The PC might be an interesting replacement for the disr instead.

The AFD on the original Frax was broken. It walked over drone races. Kzinti? Pfft! Outgun it at range, and destroy drone waves without breaking a sweat.

I agree the 3-shot EPC was

I agree the 3-shot EPC was not a viable thought. We're going with the normal 2-shot pulse but are increasing it from a 4 impulse delay to an 8 impulse delay like the Kzinti HD rate. This limits it just a bit more.

As far as the ADD part of the AFD, I'm really thinking that limiting the arc is a way to get it a bit more towards balanced. Rather than 360 like normal ADD's, I can limit it to the same arc as the PH, which of course, we've cut in half to 2-shots and the shots have to be on different impulses. This moves it away from the Ph-G on two things i.e. number of shots and the ability to do all shots in one impulse.

It is starting to sound good 'on paper', but of course we'll have to see how it flies against other ships. When I do, I'll report back on how it works. I'm hoping to get a 4-6 player FTF slug fest in a week and a half.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser