New Race: The Hinhan

I've been looking to add a new race to the Alpha sector (Fed, Klinks etc). Looking at the PHD shipyards a race called the 'Hinhan' caught me eye. They are suppose to be a Tholian galaxy race, bought I've thought to make them, as mentioned in the regular SFB galaxy. Probably to the right of the Tholians and south of the Romulans.

Here is a link to their CA ship: http://www.phdship.com/thohome/th07hin/hinca.gif

As you can see, they're a phaser boat with no heavy weapon beyond the ability to OL the phasers like the original X ships. I'd like to get some thoughts from you guys. To weak? To powerful? Interesting? Just about right?

My initial observations;
* The number of phasers is about right for that class of ship. A Fed CA has 8xph-1, 2xph-3 and 4xphotons for 14 weapons, a Klink has 5xph-1, 4xph-2, 2xph-3, 4xdisruptors and 2xdrone for 17 weapons etc. The Hinhan CA has 14 ph-1.

* The ability to OL the phasers substitutes for a HW in some regards. It is limited to R5 though as opposed to other races R8 OL's.

* The PHD has no mention of capacitors, rapid pulse etc. I'm considering normal capacitors i.e. 1xeach ph-1 just as normal Alpha ships. This means the Hinhan CA could only fire half it's phasers OL per turn (not counting the use of batteries) and again, only to R5.

* If this seems too much, I was considering that the OL option could only be used every other turn? For example, the ph-1's could be fired every turn as normal. They could only fire in OL mode every other turn with a standard turn in-between (or not used at all). This would limit the OL option further.

* Allow rapid pulse as 2xph-3's against drone/shuttle sized objects. Normal 1xph-3 for 1/2 power against ships.

* OL ph-1 = 2 points to fire. OL ph-3 = 1 point to fire. Rapid pulse 2xph-3 = 1 point to fire.

The proof is always in the pudding so some play testing will be in order no matter what. Just looking for initial observations and/or suggestions.

Thanks guys.

A quick note: The link SSD

A quick note: The link SSD has 42 power. My thought is to limit it to around 36 which is average to other Alpha races.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

Is an OL p-1 x1.5 or x2? The

Is an OL p-1 x1.5 or x2?

The shields are going to be trouble for these guys, though the ton of power they have will at least partially offset that, or in some cases overcome it entirely.

Nevermind

I see there is an OL chart there. It is generally less than 150%. This ship is likely to be pretty weak. At R5, oblique, using all its batteries, it fires 7 OL p-1 and 5 standard p-1. It's range 5 damage is going to be 42-62 in 94% of the cases. Even if it was on the lucky side, that is not going to be good enough against most opponents. It will also get reduced when having to deal with seeking weapons.

I suspect at 165 points, it is going to show up lacking.

To me

They look pretty overpowered. With no SS or WW the plasma guys could maybe pin them to a corner on a fixed map, but drone guys wont be able to do anything against all those phasers.

With the ability to overload phasers I think they would be insanely overpowered. Drop that, and maybe they become more reasonable.

I also agree on the power. Maybe drop them back to 30 Warp not 36 Warp. Otherwise their T1 would see them flying Speed 31 with 6 ECM, then with the 5 BTTY change to 5 ECCM and fire all their weapons. At R5 that's 49 damage each turn. At R3 it jumps to 70 damage each turn. But at R8 they can still do a respectable 28 damage.

You could also consider reducing their offensive power by making the 360 Ph-1 RA instead. Though I think you would need to allow the overload option if you did this.

The ship would do very well knife fighting, but I think it would struggle with the sabre dance. Of course, having OL Ph-1 based on the original X-Ship rules would literally force you to knife fight. So you have to ask yourself, is it worth having a one-trick pony, if you are looking to add flavour.

I cannot imagine anyone not charging to R3 to unleash their OL Ph-1...

Edit: Ive just read Paul's review. Maybe Im overstating their ability at moderate range, but certainly for close in fighting they are incredibly powerful. Setting OL Ph-1 to max R5 makes it even more vital to charge in. And given you dont need to pay energy on T1 and can go Spd 31 all turn, I dont think you will struggle to get close.

BTW Paul, if you are firing from an oblique at R5, against seeking weapons you may well have fired from the non-facing weapons, or will fire from the non-facing weapons. Or given you are quite likely going Spd 31, you may not need to fire. You can simply turn away. Though this would depend on the year, and whether drones were fast, plasma had sabot, etc.

Would be interested to see reviews though.

It's other big issue is its staying power

It has nothing but p-1s as weapons. It will run out pretty quickly when it starts taking damage - which is going to be soon given its shields.

Shields

If you can run 6 ECM then that will help. If you have 42 power and no heavy weapons to charge you can possibly run quite a nice brick. With the potential for high speed you are also going to heavily influence the range at which combat takes place.

But yes, once you start taking internals those Ph-1 will disappear VERY fast.

Hard to control the range with nothing but speed

The thing is, ships without some form of terrain generation have a very difficult time controlling the range of engagement. Let's say that thing is up against a Rom FH or a Gorn CC. What is it going to do when the EPT is put on the map at range 13 and everyone is moving every (or nearly every) impulse? Same thing applies to a Kzinti. There are 10 drones between the Kzinti and that ship - how is it going to be the one controlling the range? It has nothing other than itself to influence the opponent's movement.

It is still a max speed 31 vessel and it has only that speed to protect itself against seeking weapons, other than, of course, using its only weapons against those seekers.

That ship is basically a Fed without the crunch power, but with much much worse shields.

I REALLY appreciate all the

I REALLY appreciate all the comments that are being offered. Thank you.

Paul, I see what you're saying about the shields. I glanced at the front three which are about the same as most CA's, but the rear three are pretty weak. Putting the SSD on paint is easy enough and the shields can be upped a bit to reflect a normal Alpha CA. That is a possibility to tweak that weakness.

Hoju, in regards to the power you're right on about the warp engines. In 'playing' with it just a bit on paint I believe I've knocked the engines down from 36 to the normal 30 with a total power of 36 overall. It would still allow it to be a very fast ship but not have an unreasonable excess....I 'think'.

Good point about the ph-1's being taken out quickly without any padding. Perhaps an equalizing effect to offset the OL's???

What to you guys think about the capacitors being equal to the number of phaser-1's like the normal Alpha races? Or do you think it would need the double capacitors?

What do you think about the ability to rapid pulse those ph-1's against drones/shuttles? Or maybe plasma??? With the normal regular 1xph-3 against ships.

What do you think of limiting the OL option to every other turn for a particular ph-1? Or should it be able to OL every turn?

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

If you solve the "I drive you

If you solve the "I drive you into the corner and take your lunch money in 1 volley" problem, then very very likely the ship is WAY broken.

It is very hard to make something unique and different balance well. See the Andro. For years people thought it was crap. Then the SC group started winning with it and people thought that was the way to fly it. Then Paul came along and proved how truly broken it was. IT owned everyone but 2 ships... the fed comes down to luck and the Orion just plain kills it.

I can easily design a ship that kills an entire food group (plasma for example) and dies horribly to all Direct Dudes.(and lets say I'm lucky and its 50/50 against everyone else) The win % would be balanced, but obviously the ship is a failure.

Balance is really hard. I lean towards phasers being WAY broken as they produce more damage per energy than anything else. The flaw in that design only would show up in Squadron and Fleet action when the Klinks drop a shield per turn at R15 or so and you can't even respond.

Larry, Taking damage at R15

Larry,

Taking damage at R15 was one of my concerns as well. I remember a discussion a few years ago, I think on Star Ranger, about the D7Z (phaser boat) vs. a regular D7. The lack of a long range punch was a concern.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

I honestly don't see the

I honestly don't see the issue with overloading the phasers. Cut the power down as already suggested, and it's still a fast maneuverable ship but has problem with having **no** secondary weapons to engage seekers and/or fighters with. Putting them near the rom's means they have to burn a lot of power shooting Plasma as well.

I'd keep the shields weak-ish myself, to keep "I park on you and start volleying OL phaser's every turn" from being a seriously considered strategy. With smaller shields but high speed/manuever, their more saber dancers then crunchers.

Overloading phasers

It really means the only way you would fly any ship is to rush in to point blank range and overload.

Forum topic name changed

FYI, I have just changed the name of this topic from a generic 'new race ideas' (sorry, I should have written it down before I changed it) to "New Race: The Hinhan".

Please use a similar format for new topics in this section. Mr BuddaDude would like to start a topic about another new race, for example.

-DC

SSD uploading

What steps do I need to do to get my SSDs for a new race uploaded (aka: where do I send them) so people will a change to critique them?

Revised name - Pteranodons

http://ikvavenger.8m.net/index_1.html

Take a look at the last CA on the page linked above. It is the Pteranodan Raptor CA. This is a rework of the 'Hinhan' race that started this thread. I'd like to seek some thoughts, comments, opinions etc :)

Here is what I'm thinking as far as a test bed vehicle...note that this SSD is not written in stone and can and will be changed as necessary resulting from playtesting. It takes into account comments above. To begin:

The shields have been upgraded to the CA standard of other races.

The phaser OL option has been removed.

The phaser, for this race, is called a Pulsar. It has a light, standard and heavy mode of firing;

Light is the same as the Ph-3 in cost and damage. It can rapid pulse against seeking weapons, shuttles and fighters in the same or different impulses for one point of power. Gives it some protection against seekers and shuttles with the trade off of not having any phaser/pulsar padding after taking damage.

Standard is the same as the Ph-1 in cost and damage.

Heavy is the same as the Ph-V that is often associated with X ships (specifically X2). It costs 2 points to charge in heavy mode. The pulsar can only fire in heavy mode every other turn. It may fire in standard mode on the rounds before and after use in heavy mode.

I chose the ph-V table over the ph-1 OL table because it generates less damage in favor of extending the range a bit. I felt this was needed to allow the ship to be able to sabre dance as well as knife fight, but (hopefully) not make it overwhelming. In close it does significant damage in the heavy mode....but not heads and shoulders above normal ph-1 rates. A trade off for not having an OL mode so-to-speak.

Pulsar capacitor is limited to the total number of operational pulsars. This limits the number that can be fired in heavy mode. Battery power could of course be used.

Take a look, tell me what you think. Of course, proof is in the pudding so I'll have to fly her a bit to see what happens. I'll report when I do and what happened.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser