ASW: Anti-Seeking Weapon?

I was reading a few days ago in one of the threads and someone mentioned an ASW for Fed ships (I think). I don't remember who mentioned it but I remembered it was a system similar to the ADD that was also usable on plasma. Could someone expand on the ASW please. It sounded interesting and I've been looking for something for the Feds as I don't use drones on Fed ships.

Thank you :)

I *think* you might be

I *think* you might be thinking of the AFD, a defense system present on Frax command ships. From memory, it can fire either as an ADD or a Gat, but only against shuttles/fighters and seekers.

From memory, mind you. Details might be a bit off, but that's the gist as I remember it.

Frax AFD is broken

It combines an ADD-12 and a Gatling Phaser into one weapon mount; it cannot fire in both modes on the same turn, and the gatling can't be used against ships.

It is considered the best phaser.

The Frax replace each ph-3 with one of these things if they're in use. AKA "OK, I'm flying Lyrans this game." :)

Actually there's different

Actually there's different levels of use for the AFD. The default is that it's only present on command ships, not every hull.

I looked back and found the

I looked back and found the earlier thread, it was a member with the SN of 'Tank'. He mentioned it as sort of a side note when responding to the topic. He simply mentioned it was a modification they'd discussed for Fed ships that acted like an ADD against drones but was also useful against plasma. He didn't go into further explanation as to the specifics. I was curious if he or anyone could provide further details as it sounded interesting.

Ken,

Why do you feel the AFD is broken? I've not used the Frax at all, but wouldn't mind giving them a shot at some point particularly in our GW redo that is going on.

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ph-III -> ADD-12 + gatling

ph-III -> ADD-12 + gatling and you have to ask what is broken?

The Frax are broken period.

Frax CC replaces...

4 phaser 3s with
4 phaser Gs and 4 ADD-12s with the same firing arcs.
Limited Aegis on them.
For 1 BPV per phaser.

Tell me - would you consider that an upgrade, even if the phaser-Gs couldn't fire at anything larger that size class 6?

I once considering trying to

I once considering trying to create a broadside based race that used the Jindarian Rail guns and Gatlings. An example might be a CC having 2xWRG and 4xMRG and 2xP-G per broadside or a DD having 2xLRG and 1xP-G per broadside. I was going to limit the Gatlings to only firing at seeking weapons and fighter/shuttles. I had named them (the Armaghi), built a minimal history to describe them (and explain why they still operated on a broadside system) and even sketched out a CA and DD on grid paper.

Then I discovered the Britainians and Hispanolians. I figured niche was filled and put it aside. Though I have never been able to play either one of them.

The Frax haven't proven

The Frax haven't proven broken when used in my campaign. Now if you uncork the AFD and allow their use on all ships, and have a seeker-reliant opponent, maybe.

The "ASW" Defense

Hi,

ASW was a player-designed defensive system as part of a much larger project that I, Tos Crawford, and another player who's name escapes me after all these years. The project was called two different names at certain points: Star Fleet Gold (SFG), and Star Fleet Racial Flavor Alternative (SFRFA). The purpose of the project was an attempt to wholly redesign how empires deployed ship classes, weapons, and refits to enhance the original "feel" of each respective empire, but without screwing with SSDs too much (unless the whole class was eliminated, like most [but not all] CW classes).

One of the earliest and biggest issues for the Feds was the attempt to eliminated their use of drones, while still retaining (as part of a + refit) an enhanced ability to defend against drones and plasma, and that might compensate at least a little for the loss of offense.

The Anti-Seeking Weapon Defense System was born.

It replaces G-racks on a 1-for-1 basis. Against drones and shuttles, it continues to function exactly like an ADD. Against plasma, each ASW round that successfully impacts plasma (to hit same as ADD chart) does 2 points of phaser damage (1 point off the warhead) to the warhead. It can still fire once per impulse. The rack carries 8 rounds. An alternate version suggested it does from 1-3 points of phaser damage instead of the more consistent and predictable 2 points.

The project went on for more than a year, but eventually ended because of unresolvable views between the three players.

Thank you sir for detailing

Thank you sir for detailing this out for me. I like the idea. It provides a modification that isn't overpowering yet practical. One could argue that such a defense is a logical extension based on the enemies that are faced on different borders. I'm going to have to think more on this idea. Thank you again.

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This is a really interesting

This is a really interesting thread. I'd also like to see a thread detailing user created races/weapons.

Frax

>The Frax haven't proven broken when used in my campaign

The interesting thing about the Frax is, in fleet action, they can bring all their Disruptors and P-1s into arc, through 4 shields. Which gives them, BPV to BPV, a very distinct advantage in the DF game. They're not broken, but definitely high-end in fleet action.

A similar comparison can be made with the D5 class. with FH+L/R disr, some very very good arcs for their P1s, they can fight out of five shields, again, making for a very good fleet ship. Plus, it gets a pair of drones and ADDs. Then again, so do some Frax ;)

Haven't used the Frax, but

Haven't used the Frax, but would like to get them involved in the GW campaign/story that is on-going for us. As a preliminary I've changed their background since I've moved them from a simulator race to a regular Alpha race between the Tholians and Romulans.

I have plans to change their disruptor to perhaps the Ion Cannon since we don't use the Vudar and we like to make the disruptor races more individualized. Still need to consider some factors, but it seems to be shaping up.

As for their AFD, I don't see it as overwhelming against other ships (ph-3 against a ship) but do see it as a real bugger against drones, shuttles and fighters!

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AFD may be irrelevant there

If the Frax are between the Roms (no drones) and the Tholians (no drones) and near the Feds (no drones IYC) and the ISC (no drones) I suspect the AFD will see very little use until the fighters get very close.

AFD is still a gatt

against plasma.

In taking a more in-depth

In taking a more in-depth look at the ASW topic, a possible alternative could be simply using the existing Ph-3's on a given Fed ship. As an example, lets look at the Fed CA with 2xph-3. Incorporating the ASW idea, the Ph-3 could operate as a regular Ph-3 on a given turn. Or, if the Ph-3 option is not used, it could operate as a 6 round ADD rack against drones as per normal. Against plasma, perhaps the 2-pt phaser damage option Tank detailed above. Either Ph-3 or ADD/plasma defense in a turn, not both.

Using this as a 'starter' for discussion, I'd like to hear comments for or against this as an idea or alternatives or further 'tweaks'. This would provide a bit of seeking weapon defense without overly unbalancing the ship???

Your thoughts...

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Here are my thoughts on a

Here are my thoughts on a proposed ASW house rule for Fed ships only;

The Ph-3 on Fed ships operates as a normal ph-3 i.e. 1/2 point of power to fire once per turn at any target (seeking weapon, ship, monster etc). It also has a sub-munition feature tied to it, similar to an ADD, able to fire once per impulse. The ASW feature has a 6 round magazine that can be reloaded the same as an ADD rack is reloaded. The ASW is usable only against seeking weapons, to include shuttles. It is similar to a hyper drone with limited range as per the ADD chart to-hit. In some ways it could be equated to the magnetic exploder on a Mark XIV torpedo in WWII (that actually works). The ASW hones in on either the warp signature of a drone or the energy output of a plasma torpedo. As per the ADD, it will presumably do 6-points of damage which is enough to destroy all the way up to a shuttle or type IV or V drone with an energy discharge (as opposed to 'pellets' on a regular ADD). This energy discharge will similarly affect a plasma for 6-points yielding 3-points off the warhead. A slight improvement on Tank's submission. The ASW feature costs the same 1/2 point of power to charge all six ASW's in the magazine. This 1/2 is linked to the phaser capacitor system so the 1/2 can either be used to fire the ph-3 one time in a turn, or fire the ASW up to the 6 in the magazine within a turn. If the magazine is not fully used i.e. less than 6 fired, the ASW is still charged, however the ph-3 would have to be charged if used next round (or 1/2 pt of power used from the capacitor to use it). The magazine itself will remained charged from the initial 1/2 pt for the duration of the scenario.

Again, ph-3 against any normal target, ASW only drone/plasma/shuttle. Only one option available in a given turn.

Thoughts?

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Any comments on my above

Any comments on my above post? Looking for opinions. I like what Tank has detailed with my slight tweaks, but would like to hear others thoughts.

My other car is a D7 Battlecruiser

6 damage

A constant 6 damage is both better and worse than the ADD: better against shuttles (ADD does 1d6) and worse against drones (an ADD will kill any drone regardless of size or armour). Which seems an odd decision for an anti-seeker weapon. You could just make it like an ADD, but doing 6=3 damage to plasma.

The charging rule is confusing. Separate the phaser part (which is a phaser) from the bullet part (which isn't). So energy spent charging the bullets can't be used for phasers. On which note, half a point for all six is so small you can ignore it, not least because it'll be on turn 1 where you have enough spare power. Make it half a point per bullet (maybe a third) and you're talking. This will also clear up how you charge reloads.

Clarify if the bullets can be reloaded on a turn when the phaser is fired. An AFD can't be.

State how many reloads you get. I imagine it'll be 2 sets before Y175, 3 thereafter.

Otherwise it looks fine: it'll do the job it's there for, be balanced and stop Fed escorts being death on a (lollypop) stick.

Perhaps we shouldn't tie the

Perhaps we shouldn't tie the ASW to the ph-3's on the Fed ship to avoid confusion. Instead, use the drone rack box as a regular ADD against drones and 6=3 vs. plasma. Make it either a 6 round or 12 round rack. So a Fed CA would have one ASW rack in place of the drone rack for seeking weapon defense. This wouldn't give it anything against drones it can't already have, yet a least give it a little against plasma. Make it like an ADD rack that fires once per impulse. Perhaps one point of initial power to charge a 6-rack or two points to charge a 12-rack.

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Try it.

Seems OK. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Seems like a logical

Seems like a logical innovation for the Feds considering they're between drone and plasma users. Something that works on both but not overwhelming with some limitations. I'll give it a go and battle report on how it works/doesn't work.

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I'm using the probe box and

I'm using the probe box and have relabled it "ASW". It will be destroyed on a probe hit. The ship can still use its probes normally, but since that is pretty rare (close to non-existant for us) it isn't much of an issue. And this way an extra system/box is not added to the SSD.

The 'ASW' will be Fed-exclusive. For FF and DD sized ships it carries a 5 round rack. For CL and CA sized ships it carries an 8 round rack. For CC on up it carries a 10 round rack. No reloads at this time.

It uses the same to-hit/range as the standard ADD table. It will do 6 points of damage on drones or shuttles. It will do 6=3 points of damage on a plasma torpedo. It costs one point of power to charge the rack for the duration of the scenario. It can fire once per impulse as per ADD. Hit on probe hits. Instead of 'pellets' exploding as per an ADD, this causes a small electical dischage at the moment of impact. This is the reason it affects drones, shuttles and plasma.

I see the small rack as 'something' to assist the Feds with seeking weapon defense while not being too good of a thing i.e. no reloads/small rack. It will allow the Fed ship 'some' assistance without tipping the scales too much. At least this is the theory. I'm going to do some play testing with it.

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Update: This system has

Update:

This system has worked out quite well. Only change we've made is to use the normal 12 round rack regardless of ship class. Still requires the normal 'to-hit' on the ADD chart (relabeled ASW on Fed ships). It still operates as a normal ADD yet offers a little against plasma. Against plasma it isn't over or underwhelming but offers just a bit to give one some additional options. Has 2 sets of reloads per normal rules.

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Wanted to update this thread

Wanted to update this thread with a sort of status report in our FTF games. We've incorporated the ASW into the G-rack(s) on Fed ships. It takes the place of the ADD on a 1-for-1 basis and actually the Fed doesn't have the ADD in favor of the ASW.

The ASW functions as per the ADD i.e. same to-hit and damage on drones. Against plasma it does 6 points of 'phaser' damage which = 3 points off the plasma warhead. Again, same to-hit and ranges as the ADD chart.

We've used this in multiple FTF games and it has proven an acceptable modification. Not over or underwhelming. Provides a little defense against seekers in general which makes sense as the FEDs are surrounded by seeking weapon races but addresses the differing technologies.

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I like the idea of using the

I like the idea of using the Probe box. In fact, you could probably extend it to all races, and have it use up probes (probably with no reloads). The system sounds good as presented: It acts (to hit and damage) as a normal ADD, except it also does 6 phaser damage to plasma weapons (which include QWTs). One might lift the ADD component of ignoring ECM modifiers.

I suppose it could be used by

I suppose it could be used by other races via the probe box. We use it only for the Feds to provide them with just a 'little something' against BP. As mentioned, it isn't over or underwhelming. Just a little bump which we find perfectly reasonable. It won't stop an the flood of plasma from an anchor, but it gives the Fed some small options when running out a plasma (or even running through one). Takes just a little sting off and like mentioned, the Feds are surrounded by as much BP as it is drone users so it makes sense to have 'something' useful for both.

Since it is now in the G-rack, it is limited on the ammo (total of 8 just like they were ADD's). Just gives some nice options.

Not that it would ever happen, but I think it would be interesting to see it tried out at one of the tournaments. Perhaps C5N? Of course BP might not like it much, but then the Klinks don't like Feds having an ADD so what's the diff?
;)

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